<p>“There is no need to criticize the students or the schools for taking funds away from other students.”</p>
<p>Only when it does, which it does at some schools, as the report shows. But it’s a good point. Our own no-merit-money LAC has such donors who (according to their own criteria) eliminate loans for some students.</p>
<p>I am a financial aid professional, and I believe that a mix of need-based and merit aid is appropriate. I don’t have a problem with schools that decide they will only offer need-based aid, but I would imagine those schools will attract top students even if they must pay top dollar. Most schools must balance the need & merit in order to manage enrollment. I see nothing wrong with students who have worked hard getting a scholarship regardless of the family financial situation (but I also don’t believe that schools “should” reward such students, if they don’t feel the need to do so). A little this, a little that … it’s how schools build the class they want.</p>
<p>It is indeed clear why they do it, but I’ll say bravo to the schools that can attract the classes they want without disadvantaging poorer students.</p>
<p>" I would imagine those schools will attract top students even if they must pay top dollar.", regarding those schools that offer no merit, only need based aid, describes the situation well. What are you going to do if you are running a school that starts sliding in terms of getting full pay or close to full pay students who are also top picks. When you find out that you are losing your best picks to the schools you consider competitors and many of them are saying that it’s the money? Let’s say you are DIckinson College, and that you give only need based aid but meet full need. And that Gettysburg, just a half hour down the road, decides not to guarantee to meet full need, but will also give out merit money. A fictional situation here as those two schools do not quite operate the way I am assuming, and I just don’t want to go into that. </p>
<p>My son applied to both, and though one was a bit more favored, if the other had offered, say $10K in pure merit, it would havee been a game changer for him. $20k might have made it a true deal. That’s just one case (and he really wanted a bigger school, so again a theoretical), but you get enough of this and you can see where that goes.</p>
<p>Real life Oberlin did not want to give out merit aid. Oh, they fought it. I remember a number of press statements when they emphasized they wanted to stay “need only”. But the realities of the situations made them get into the merit awards. There just were too many situations where a little bit of money for someone without need got them the students they most wanted, and more importantly a class that was/is closer to what they want.</p>
<p>We see the questions all of the time–is Oberlin, or put any like college in there, worth $20K a year more than Muhlenberg? The answer is a resounding “no” most of the time. If a kid with the choice between the two can come out over $80K ahead picking one over the other, of course, unless money is not an issue, it isn’t worth it. Even less worth it if the family is deemed able to pay but can’t without borrowing and stinting. So, the merit money can be deal breakers for a lot of students, and if they are the ones who you most want, you gotta put money in the game or you are gonna lose out on a lot of them. It’s a great win when you snag a kid you really want with a nice pure merit package, since the odds are also good that that the family can truly afford to pay the remainder. With fin aid, you often get kids who are truly barely able to afford the school and the likelihood of financial crisis is higher. That is a reality. So merit aid often is a tool to keep a school running.</p>
<p>Vonlost, sadly, the money for merit awards has to come from somewhere, so it does often lessen the pot for those students with need. Even the systems that are often in place for distributing financial aid are such that there is a big difference between having need for $10K, say, or less, and needing close to a free ride. Schools have merit within need many times where the kids with the strongest profiles get the best need packages. Also makes more sense financially to offer 10 kids $5-10K in need packages fully meeting need than to offer one to a full need student. Same amount of money, more bang for bucks with more prospects.</p>
<p>I am the OP of this thread, and when I started the discussion, it was received with a “so what” feedback, so I stepped away. I am glad this issue got some traction.</p>
<p>One thing that became clear is that there is agreement that money is fungible, and that schools do shift money from one rubric to the other. I remember an old thread in the Parents board where people was arguing that money come from specific pre-determined endowment lines.</p>
<p>In my view schools do have pre-determined lines, but them they adjust the remaining budget to assemble the class they want. So if a school had a donor that pledged $1k per year for merit aid, this means that the school can redirect $1K from their general funds away from merit aid and into some other lines, such as need aid. The same works for donations that are linked to merit aid, buildings, etc.</p>
<p>I would also like to agree that dispensing merit money to recruit academic qualified students is not necessarily a bad thing. The same way that schools need to strive to recruit diversity, because it makes the environment better for the entire academic community, schools should strive to recruit academic qualified students, because they also contribute to the betterment of the schools’ academic community.</p>
<p>In the end the mixed approach suggested by Kelsmom is probably the best. I feel, though, that there is a lack of recognition that many different students end up contributing to the overall academic experience. Some will bring their life experiences and different viewpoints, some will bring their high HP intellectual contributions, and some others (full payers and kids of donors) may be the ones that bring the economic resources that allow the institution to serve everyone.</p>
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DS gets subsidized Stafford and Perkins loans as part of FA. For others, they might not be able get loans by themselves. Thus the loans are considered as meeting need.</p>
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<p>Schools don’t want to cut “merit aid” for fear of losing the top students. Same deal - if you want to be the best, you need the top students and the only way to get them versus HYPS schools is with $$$. Likewise, schools further down the chain want students from higher ranked schools and merit aid plays that role.</p>
<p>^ Schools that feel they MUST offer merit money might check with those that don’t.
It’s because student loans are automatic with no qualifying; they enable attendance. They’re considered not burdensome. They may be the reason you were admitted.</p>
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<p>Every time this related subject is discussed, there is always a similar posting. Well, it is quite simple - quit your job and then you will qualify for the needed aid. But no single person does take the route.</p>
<p>In the case of tip top ranked schools, the need based FA could be considered as the merit base FA. Because most of the students got in there have excellent merits.</p>
<p>Full disclosure - both our kids received/ing significant amount of need based FA from the highly rank universities. I am 100% sure they earned their merits to have the opportunities to receive those FA. We are very grateful for those grants and loans which enable them to attend the most expensive private schools.</p>
<p>i write to u cause u seem to kno a lot,my question is as stated in fed aid do not list ss disability,i didnt so they processed my app but now hesaa(higher ed) is asking for that total & its not on my tax forms this year(it sits off to the left side of my taxes & not added into agi) should i contact my tax office & have them fix this because if i just give it to hesaa it will not match my fed aid app. thank u very much~renee</p>
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<p>Isn’t this a form of educational welfare?</p>
<p>Excellent summary of the FA/merit aid system on Muhlenberg’s website. It was just posted on another thread by Kennedy(plus some number).</p>
<p>[Muhlenberg</a> College| The real deal on financial aid](<a href=“http://www.muhlenberg.edu/main/admissions/realdeal.html]Muhlenberg”>http://www.muhlenberg.edu/main/admissions/realdeal.html)</p>
<p>LakeClouds, it could be considered as ‘educational welfare’ by some, but as stated upthread, most private colleges have to work their demographics with ‘some-and-some’, educationally, by gender, by income, by ethnic background (although no college will admit that). But it is their choice as a private institution to disseminate aid however they choose to do so. </p>
<p>It would be interesting for Dad II to expound on how both his kids were able to get significant need-based grants to ‘the most expensive private schools’, which no doubt used Profile. Although my kids are out (finally, last one graduated Saturday!), I’m sure there are readers new to CC that would love to have this information to help them.</p>
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I don’t think that particular poster whom you quoted was in the “envy the poor” situation. Simply making the statement that there are some of us (not yourself, I would note) who have very high EFC’s which there is no way we could actually justify paying, and therefore our kids won’t be going to “the most expensive private schools”. </p>
<p>That’s a fact of life, regardless of how we, you, or anyone else feels about it. If your reaction to that fact is “then quit your job”, it suggests to me that you are feeling some defensiveness about being one of the ones for whom “the most expensive private schools” have somehow become an option.</p>
<p>Indeed, sylvan, that’s been my point on here from quite a while. Probably for the last 5-8 years, the so-called ‘middle incomers’–and I don’t want to debate what adjusted gross range that spans, it’s been beaten to death–have in effect been priced out of the top privates. Not ALL the time–there are exceptions to everything–but definitely it has been trending that way. And a lot of CC folks don’t like to hear that.</p>
<p>We in that ‘income-range-that-shall-not-be-mentioned’ have accepted that the system is that way, and we have zagged to state flagships, 2nd tier privates that give decent merit aid, or any place where good stats are rewarded with a good value on education. Different ways to do it, and we did.</p>
<p>Now that it’s all over but the loan paying, did I get good value from my 2 D’s education at OOS flagships? I would say yes, with the caveat of ask me in 5 years to make sure they’re gainfully employed. </p>
<p>I didn’t care for the 5-8% annual tuition bumps, but I guess my kids were 10 years too early for the eventual plateauing of tuition rates, bad planning :). But I knew early on, after D1 got her only denial (at Duke, thankyouverymuch) that for D2 my wife & I would have to set sights a little lower. Whatever, it worked out OK, no complaints.</p>
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<p>It is relatively simple - work with your kids so they could get the merits to be considered for admission to those top ranked rich schools. If they are lucky like mine to get a ticket, the rest are automatic. </p>
<p>Just fill the necessary documents such as css profile with the accurate financial information and explain if you have any special situation. </p>
<p>There is all to it. Any family could do this.</p>
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<p>It is all about one’s priority and value. I am sure you can pay for the privates if your kids if: 1) they got in and 2) you want to. </p>
<p>Even with the significant amount of FA, we still have to cut other expenses including not fully funding 401K to cover our EFC. At one time, our DD had 4 jobs while taking 19 credits. But we made it work so far. Have one more year for DS and then we are done.</p>
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Why that’s mighty, ahem, something, of you.</p>
<p>Yeah, that’s like the old Steve Martin line, “How do you become a millionaire? Well, first, you get a million dollars…”</p>
<p>OK, Dad II, let me write those two keys to the highway down for future generations of college applicants, then I think we had better return to our previous programming, the original topic by the OP.</p>