College Financial Aid Isn't Going to the Neediest

Paying for College
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<p>Dad II, that is not the issue and obviously not a viable course of action.</p>

<p>It’s not that any middle-class family feels their life would be better if only they were poor. Or would want to switch places just so they can obtain need-based aid.</p>

<p>I think a large sense is - the feeling of these families is that somehow they got “cheated” (for lack of a better term) or, maybe, promises were not fulfilled.</p>

<p>After all, a “successful” family did not come to that station in life by accident. I, and many others, studied hard, worked hard, worked many long hours. Often having both spouses work. Made many sacrifices. In our case, also worked in, at times, dangerous jobs in dangerous places. (Having my family’s house shot at for two or three days was not fun.)</p>

<p>And now, when it comes times to search for viable college options for our children, we are finding out that, whoa, wait a minute. A college education costs how much!? And we’re expected to pay how much of that!? And it is a huge sticker shock for many of us. And the options seemed skewed.</p>

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Which stats say this is happening? If it is, it just takes a needs formula tweak to move money from the poor to the middle. Why might schools want only the rich and the poor?</p>

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I second the question. </p>

<p>GolfFather hasn’t defined middle class but I’m assuming he’s talking about families in something like the $125k/yr-$200k/yr range. My kid’s high school probably sends about 20-30 kids to top 25 Reserch Us or top 25 LACs each year and the admission results do not seem to follow GolfFather’s claim. I do not know the specifics of families finances but from jobs, etc I’d estimate

  • There certainly are many kids from families over $200k/yr
  • There are more kids from the “donut hole” middle class than from the over $200k/yr crowd
  • Despite the financial aid possibilities and being at a top public school full-ride top school attendees are few and far between.</p>

<p>Do the attendees follow the demographics of the US … not even close. However, the demographics are also no where close to a bi-modal split. (I do not know enough about families finances to make an educated guess if the pattern has changed a lot over the last few years … it’s certainly not obvious it has at the macro level.</p>

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<p>First of all, what break point are we talking about as to not qualifying for financial aid? A family has to be making over $100K not to get ANY aid from these schools like the NESCA schools Harvard gives aid to a number of families making what is very much a middle class income. Where the problem comes, are those families who really are in the upper echelon income wise and feel that they deserve every bit of the standard of living they are enjoying and do not want to move down to a level where they could get the financial aid they need. </p>

<p>I live in an area where even with the housing market not in the best shape, a million bucks in certain school districts will buy you a split level or ranch with 3 BRs and 2 baths or 4 BRs and 1 bath, and you gotta pick between the two unless you want to cough up more. The lot is nothing to brag about either at 1/3 of an acre. So you have the kids, and you buy that house, and your mortgage is more than half your take home, and with the utilities and up keep, you really don’t have as much discretional spending money left as someone who makes half of what you do. And you don’t even have a house that you can brag about because the danged thing probably costs 10% of your cost in most of the country. Yeah, I know, because I’ve lived this. I broke down and cried when we looked at houses around here. DH gets a big raise in pay and prestige, and I move from a very nice big colonial in a fine neighborhodd on nearly an acre to that and have less money left. And in a community where it seems that at least half of the folks, have much, much more than you. Because they do. Even if they make less, they bought the danged house at half the price and the real estate taxes are a heck of a lot lower too. We bought our house here at close to the top of the market.</p>

<p>So when folks in that situation are told that they need to come up wit $60K+ a year, or downsize, they see red. They are squeezed in a house, really smaller than they like, in a condition that isn’t the best, and is nothing to brag about other than the school district is great and the neighbors all seem to have great jobs too and the cultural and academic vibes are what you want. You are putting these things in the forefront and this is what it costs in many NY, Boston, San Francisco suburbs to do so. To cut down on costs to free up the money for college means giving up those very things that make you seek one of those colleges high on the ratings, rep, recognition , renown for its great academics and opportunities . You are chasing your own tail. </p>

<p>But the fact of the matter is that families like this, and I am one of them, are only a small part of the college landscape. It’s just that a lot of us are so interested and invested in the best colleges for our kids, so there seem to be so many of us. On a graph, we are not the bulk of the population, but one small, unfortunate niche. </p>

<p>Another small niche, a very fortunate niche, is the kid, not so much the family, but the kid, his/herself who is very academically successful with super high test scores and grades, well prepared for college who applies to full need met $60K+ schools and gets accepted to some. Those kids get full ride, baby. But not many of them around. Most kids in that category go to community college, maybe, if they are lucky and many who do use up their PELL money before they know it and that’s it. It’s off to some community training, not college , but training programs to learn how to change Depends at nursing homes and clean up to get a nursing aide job. So, yes, those are the rare birds getting that full ride to Harvard or to F&M for that matter. </p>

<p>Given that about 60% of the kids going to Harvard are getting fin aid with the average aid number being about $45K a year, that means that 40% of the kids are paying full freight. You think 40% of the US can pay $60K a year for a college? So what does that tell you about what strata of our society is most represented at these schools, and by backing numbers into the NPCs, you can get some idea as to what the break points are for fin aid, and what those families have to be making.</p>

<p>The family in the $1 million dollar house that isn’t such hot shakes, has to come to some understanding that they can’t afford that house in that neighborhood, and look for something a lot cheaper in a school district that isn’t so great, and in a locale not so great, if they want to be able to pay for an elite college, is what the bottom line is. The problems is if there are other kids, and if you can even sell the danged house. Jumbo loans are just not obtainable here which means it’s easy to be underwater on a house like that, so that to sell it quickly means owing as much on that afterwards as you would on the new house and so no savings are realizes. I am personally in this situation, and it makes me sick every time I think about it. The house next door took two years to sell and did not go for that much, but they had put a huge down payment on it and just lost that.</p>

<p>So yes, there are families caught in this quandry and many of them are here on this board.</p>

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<p>It’s probably less because assets count towards EFC as well.</p>

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<p>We are middle class and our kids are eight years apart. Thought that would be a good spacing since we wouldnt have to pay for college at the same time!
So. Naive. :rolleyes:
What it really meant was the oldest was able to attend a private school that met 100% of need ( & offered zero merit) because her sister was still young enough for a child deduction and that lowered our EFC so it was managable.</p>

<p>When the youngest was ready to attend college, the oldest was long gone & EFC went up so the most affordable choice was an instate public school, and although Princeton had been targeting her with elaborate mailings, she wanted to stay on west coast, although it also likely would have been affordable, given their excellent aid program.
[Princeton</a> University - Princeton’s financial aid packages offer grants, not loans](<a href=“Princeton's financial aid packages offer grants, not loans”>Princeton's financial aid packages offer grants, not loans)</p>

<p>Being middle class means you aren’t living hand to mouth, and even though you may not saved enough to pay for private university tuition, you are savvy enough to suggest your child apply for merit based aid or to the honors college at your state flagship, because your kid is not such a sensitive plant that they will only consider their “dream” school.
;)</p>

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<p>Are you suggesting that the “poor” families that received need based aid did not do that “studied hard and work hard” stuff?</p>

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<p>If I remember correctly, CSS profile asks for your purchase price, remaining mortgage balances, and your mortgage payment. I would assume the school would consider the situation and offer need based FA if indeed there is no income left to pay tuition bills.</p>

<p>We also moved from a low cost area to a very expensive area so both kids could attend a great public high school. We went from a 10 year old BIG house to a 60 year old small house about 1/2 the size. We also brought the house at the top of the market.</p>

<p>We truthfully disclosed the situation to the FA office - did everything other than laying on the floor crying. They listened… …</p>

<p>If there is a lesson learnt here - don’t tell yourself no because the EFC estimator says so. Most of FA people have a heart and a brain. As long as you can demonstrated your needs, they will meet it. How do you demonstrate your need - now that is a completely different story.</p>

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<p>Dad II, I know that’s a rhetorical fallacy, but I don’t remember which one :)</p>

<p>That’s not what was written or suggested. That’s what you are reading into it.</p>

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<p>The question if it is being seen at a macro level, rich and poor and fewer middle income kids, it sure is at a micro level in our school district of 3 high schools, income range 100-200K+.</p>

<p>I see the trend since 2006, fewer and fewer kids going OOS, privates. The only guarantees are the ivys, those who were admitted this year, are going. A few went for the full tuitions instead of the IVY’s (the less generous ones). In our area seems the price break is 20-25K out of pocket, no merit money/merit money. So the kids are staying home, (and many many more are this year compared to oldest HS class of 2008), or going to instate schools. When I look at the results over the 7 years it is dramatically different. You could say it went from 50% to about 10% if not less.</p>

<p>In one of the schools my D declined sent a survey as to why she declined, I was amused at the cost questions, on who/where funding was coming from. The usual parents/grandparents/ relatives but it went as far as asking were friends and neighbors willing to help fund education. Really?</p>

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<p>I don’t buy this. One of D2’s (hs junior) friends was admitted to H, would’ve loved to attend, family is quite wealthy…but he’s the oldest of five and the money isn’t there to send all five to college at full-pay rates. He’ll be attending USC, having received their full-tuition scholarship. Another family friend’s D is graduating from WashU this year. Again, full-tuition scholarship (most definitely not on need!), turned down H. Yes, that was four years ago, so things might’ve changed. </p>

<p>If you feel that schools like WashU and USC (or Rice or Duke or UChicago or U Rochester etc etc etc) are just too far away from the Olympian heights of Cambridge or Palo Alto, then you and I are looking at the world in two very different ways. :)</p>

<p>Any student who can get into one of the tippy-tops is going to be able to find big merit somewhere. </p>

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<p>DadII, I’ll agree with the first two sentences, but not the last. That’s a matter of individual circumstances (meaning that the need you feel you have matches up with the institution’s idea of need), and possibly some preferential packaging. Not to mention the school having the resources to offer generous FA! Harvard and Columbia are both Ivy League schools, but one’s FA offers are far, far more generous than the other’s.</p>

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<p>^LOL, maybe we could start holding fundraisers? Car washes, lemonade stands, bake sales…</p>

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<p>I know a kid who got a full-ride to Duke, another kid to Carnegie-Mellon, and another kid to Bryn Mawr (which she turned to for full pay at Yale). Scripps gives a few lucky kids amazing scholarships. So yes, it’s not true.</p>

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<p>I attended my daughter’s graduation today at a community college. The community college has an urban (poor) and suburban (wealthy) campus. It was interesting to see the mix of people that attended - based on how they dressed. There were many speeches and I thought that the mix of STEM, liberal arts and business majors was interesting. STEM was very small compared to business and liberal arts. I listened to the speeches and wondered what the job outlook was for the graduates. One thing that I didn’t worry about for these graduates, though, was that they were up to their eyeballs in debt.</p>

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<p>what is not true?</p>

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<p>I agree with jnm123. Those who manipulate their finances, defer compensation, send funds to family overseas for safekeeping, or whatever shenaqnigans people play to game the financial aid system make my stomach turn.</p>