Given the widespread financial illiteracy and poor financial planning that folks have noted in this thread, it’s probably safe to say that without social security, we would have millions more – maybe tens of millions more – senior citizens living in abject poverty. You yourself might be better off investing the money you pay in social security taxes, and I might be too – but the country we’d be living in would be much worse.
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@gpo613 who’s talking about indoctrination?
Pretty sure everyone referring to school programs are talking about budgeting worksheets and research that students own. No bias on the part of schools about how they fill those sheets out or what they determine to do based on their research. Simply raising awareness about how money in/money out works and that kids should know choices have to be made. Their call on what those choices are.
So educating kids on what compound interest means, the difference between a stock purchase (risk) and a bank deposit (guaranteed up to a certain value). Not telling them what to invest in or even that any approach is the right way. Just that they should have enough factual information to decide for themselves what their right way will be.
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More factual information about personal finance known among the general public may be bad for the business of some who prey on poor personal finance knowledge to sell stuff that people may not be able to realistically afford, often financed with overpriced loans or credit cards being paid with minimum monthly payments.
I.e. there are some business interests that would not see better personal finance education as a good thing.
Of course, the tax preparation industry is also opposed to anything that would make it simpler for many taxpayers to do their tax returns themselves – or allow the IRS to send a pre-filled return based on W-2 and 1099 forms that the IRS has received that the taxpayer has options to accept as is, or modify with additional deductions, credits, etc. not shown on forms sent to the IRS.
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While financial literacy is an issue, there are just too many problems here to take seriously. First, it’s not “college graduates” that were in this study. Most college graduates know what their initial earning are/were/will be. And as pointed out, there’s zero data on the methodology. Frankly, I call BS on a study that says, in April, that
- Just 15% of students graduating in 2022 have accepted a job offer.
And fwiw, reviewing Wharton Reddit threads from students actually in the “study”, it’s clear that if this was an actual question a graded assignment, the result would be very different.
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IMO - really important for HS age kids to work (during summer at least part time) and to do their own tax return. Used to be the EZ form. Now it’s all inclusive but the vast majority of it doesn’t pertain to them. Still it’s good for them to read the form and get familiar with the topics. I started doing that when I was 15. I currently use a CPA firm because of my businesses and real estate investments (get 5 K-1s which make it complex) but for simple stuff, a kid can learn.
Son is in his first yr of full time employment. Back in March I asked him if he started on his taxes and he told me he already received his refund. Used Turbo tax for free. Said they made it super easy, just followed the tree of questions, and electronically filed the return. These tools are amazing. I assume he did it right but that’s up to him now.
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Is this sarcasm? (That’s how I read it, but I could be wrong…)
If not, no school I know of “indoctrinates” kids with where to invest or how money should be handled.
Courses like the one my school has talk about debt (including Rent to Own and credit cards) and investments in general - how to know how much one is really paying for something and how to earn money via investments since savings accounts don’t beat inflation - but they certainly aren’t telling kids what to do.
From my experience at school, courses like that are more important for kids’ future lives than most others we offer.
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Which means you indirectly pay $10,000 you would otherwise receive in salary.
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Financial literacy should be a required course to graduate HS on a national basis. Just like kids have to learn how to read, write, and add, they should learn basic financial concepts. Included should be the importance of saving, different types of accounts, compound and simple interest, basic stocks and bonds, debt (not bonds but personal finance), loans, interest payments, personal balance sheet, basic income taxes, credit card management, mortgages, etc. As parents, we should be discussing this as well.
Our schools don’t do this. I taught some very basic concepts during a one day “Professional Day” at each of my kid’s schools when they were in middle school. Explained interest and did a fun exercise on compound interest by showing the effect of a penny doubling each day for 30 days (staggering by the way). The kids were fascinated. Not too many things more important than them being financially literate so they can make good choices as adults.
As a Financial Advisor, I can say it’s appalling to see what little financial knowledge the average adult has (with various levels of education including doctors and lawyers and engineers). I guess that’s good for me as I provide value to my clients but it’s pretty sad.
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My school’s course is a high school (required) course. I doubt there’s anything at all in the middle school that deals with finances.
No one is indoctrinating anyone. And many parents don’t teach their kids basic financial skills. It’s sad how many don’t know how to manage money when it’s really just common sense.
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Maybe if certain people were better with their money, the government wouldn’t have to “take care of them.”
@ububumble you can’t tell me those schools don’t have any bias. Thank God for voucher programs.
yes, the schools clearly have a bias. Teaching kids how to calculate compound interest is a nefarious plot!
I learned how to calculate interest in math class…is that indoctrination? Probably not! God forbid, kids learn math and basic finance.
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I also think of taxes in this way. And if you happen to love anyone who is/was a government employee, it helps me to think of my taxes going toward that person’s salary/pension.
My D22 received an excellent personal finance training session for youth at church as well as some lessons in her Economics class.
She will attend Oregon State this fall, where a Center for Advancing Financial Education is housed in the College of Business and open to all students. It offers a two-credit course on financial literacy as well as personal advising. Business students are required to take financial literacy courses as part of their core courses, also.
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I am actually pleasantly surprised by new college grads in my DD circle. Most of them graduated without debts thanks to their parents. They are in tech or finance. All have starting salaries in six figures. All have roommates to save on rent, budget their spendings, max their retirement contributions. Many of them are frugal even though that they don’t have to be.
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Don’t they have to know some basic math first? 
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And if they ever stepped outside their house and started using the infrastructure and services that municipalities, states and the country provides, they might realize that we all pool some share of our resources in the form of taxes to enjoy that mutual benefit.
When my daughter saw our first family tax returns, she was floored about the height of the taxes, and the local property taxes that had paid for her excellent schooling. My response was that I very much prefer having that “problem” vs. the implications of being in some of the much lesser tax brackets.
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Likely not. Your employer’s group rate means you’re getting more value from the group insurance than what you could get as incremental gross salary. And that’s before considering the tax benefits.
That’s the whole point of benefits (incl. company cars,…): both sides usually win.
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It is cheaper for an employer in the US to pay $X for an employee’s medical insurance than to pay the employee an extra $X which the employee then buys medical insurance with because of the way taxes work (employer-paid is done before tax, while employee-paid is done after tax).
Also, group plans reduce the effect of adverse selection that occurs with individual plans.
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