College Ideas needed for physics or eng

Parents Forum
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<p>New here and would love some college ideas for S#1. He is 14 yo. At first I thought this was way too early to begin considering colleges, but after I stumbled upon this website and read many posts, I began to feel differently about that. We would love to get some ideas for good fits for colleges for him and begin thinking about what is financially possible for the family so we can be well prepared.</p>

<p>My son has been homeschooled since he was in 1st grade and the school thought he was dyslexic. He definitely has some differences when it comes to reading, but these have normalized as he has matured. He does not need any particular help with his school work, but he certainly does have a very different way of processing information and an uncanny ability to visualize 3D objects. He is extremely interested in physics, materials science engineering, perhaps chemical engineering (small scale chemical interactions). </p>

<p>He now attends the public school for science and math and is accelerated in those subjects. He participates in a few EC activites such as a library book group, robotics and science demos for his 4H group. He does does not seek out leadership positions and honestly, for the most part he just enjoys spending his free time thinking about and discussing physics concepts. His biggest strength is his ability to synthesize and integrate information. He is a very self motivated learner. </p>

<p>He does not fit the leadership type profile I imagine highly competitive specialty technical schools seeking. MIT would be his dream school as he loves watching the MIT open courseware classes on chemistry and math subjects. But not sure it is a realistic option for him and I do not know how in the world we could possibly afford it. If we could find a good fitting technical school which would see him as a desirable enough student to offer merit aid, that would be IDEAL! (I know, I know, we all desire this huh?) </p>

<p>So, we are looking for options for a student with high science and math abilities, but not the highly competitive math olympiad type. He will end up with math and science AP classes and will probably test well on the AP exams in those subjects, projected 2200+ on SAT, but probably not 2400. Essay might be med high range. GPA is non-applicable since most colleges do not consider GPA for homeschooled students. He presents himself as a serious, thoughtful individual, quiet, but at ease with himself. He wants an undergrad degree in either physics or eng and to go to grad school in either physics or materials science eng. SO far he is undecided on location and size of school.<br>
Any thoughts? And thanks so much for any ideas. :)</p>

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<p>I would encourage him to explore broadly before settling down to any particular major. Has he explored the humanities? Literature? Philosophy? Architecture? There will be plenty of time for him to specialize down the road. Perhaps he may wish to shadow different professionals, to see what they actually DO as part of their work, which can be quite different from what is studied in school. He can go to the engineering & physics departments at the local U & talk with them about any summer programs that might be appropriate for HS students as well.</p>

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<p>Rose-Hulman. case Western. Colorado school of Mines. Milwaukee school of engineering. Rensaeller polytechnic Institute. </p>

<p>Those are small high achieving science/technology schools, kids not known for social skills.</p>

4

<p>Second the suggestion of RPI. Also maybe WPI? I also know several kids very happy with Purdue. They love the combination geeky/big 10 atmosphere.</p>

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<p>If your kiddo gets to be a NMF, he may also wish to consider USoCal, where they give very generous merit aid, especially to NMFs (1/2 tuition or more).</p>

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<p>Just curious, you said he attends public school but he is homeschooled and has no gpa, is that correct?</p>

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<p>Would he have a GPA in the courses that he does take at public school?</p>

<p>If money is a concern, are the in-state public universities good? Beyond those, you would be looking for schools with good need and/or merit aid.</p>

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<p>^ I assume he’ll have grades from the math & science classes he’s taking at the public HS, so GPA is not entirely irrelevant. That’s a great boon to a homeschooler. We homeschooled our D1 right through HS and the message we consistently got from admissions officers was that they wanted to be sure homeschoolers were up to speed in math and science. Graded AP-level classes in those subjects should allay any concerns.</p>

<p>For engineering, I’d start by looking at your in-state public options. Some of the strongest engineering programs are at public universities; in fact, 15 of the 25 highest-ranking undergraduate engineering programs in the US News ranking are at public universities, and most states have at least one good-to-outstanding engineering program somewhere in their state system. Obviously in-state tuition is going to be lower than OOS tuition, but even the OOS tuition is relatively inexpensive at some of these schools. (At the University of Minnesota, for example, OOS tuition is pegged at $4K above the in-state rate, so currently about $16K/year for OOS; US News ranks Minnesota #22 for undergrad engineering overall, and #3 in chemical engineering).</p>

<p>But don’t assume private colleges and universities are too expensive. Some are very generous with need-based financial aid. Run an EFC calculator (available online at many colleges’ websites) to get a realistic sense of whether your S will be eligible for need-based financials aid. Once you get beyond the super-elite level (MIT, Stanford, Caltech), the best private university engineering programs would be Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Rice, maybe Duke, maybe RPI. Princeton’s also up there, not quite at the MIT-Caltech-Stanford level in engineering, but a very tough admit; same for Harvard and Columbia, but a tad behind Princeton in engineering.</p>

<p>These are not my fields, but just going by US News and NRC rankings I’d say the schools that are strongest in all the areas you mentioned—physics, general engineering, materials engineering, and chemical engineering—would be (in rough order) MIT, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Caltech, Illinois, Cornell, Michigan, Texas, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, Penn State, Johns Hopkins, UCLA, the University of Washington, Ohio State, and Rice. But of course that may be utterly irrelevant since presumably your S will end up choosing one program or another, not all of the above.</p>

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<p>HImom, thanks for the suggestions. He does have a variety of interests in other areas: Mandarin (online and local classes), history (listening now to audio file of The Rise and Fall of Rome) history of our language, reads a variety of literature etc. BUT, science is a passion for him and he is interested in pursuing a STEM career. Does 14 seem too young to decide to you? S#2 is almost 13 and he is still definitely in the growing up and exploring his options mode. They are very different people though. S#1 is pretty decisive and mature. </p>

<p>Also, our local U has a eng day which he enjoyed although, the one reason he is not sure on eng versus physics is that for an undergrad eng degree, students seem to need to take a broad range of eng courses and he is interested very specifically in materials sciences (not structural, civil etc) whereas he is interested in many aspects of physics. Seems to him that in physics he could delve deeper into the subject at an undergrad level, while in eng he would have a broad base in general eng priciples and then fewer classes specific to the specific field. DH is a chemist a the U, and the kids are familiar with what their dad does in the lab. We are wondering if S#1 should just attend the local Univ at age 16 and try for research projects to get him well prepared for grad school.</p>

<p>D101 and boy: Thanks for the school ideas! We will definitely do some research on them. </p>

<p>I did read parts of the Colleges that Change lives, but was disappointed to see little emphasis on science…or maybe i missed it. Mostly I read the book while waiting to pick up the kids from sports…so could have missed a lot!</p>

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<p>Re GPA: He has solid A’s in honors math and science classes at the public school. They won’t let him take the AP class until he takes the honors class though, so he hasn’t taken any AP classes yet. I imagine he will get high grades as he has already learned most of the subject matter from online courses. His biggest problem is over analyzing the homework questions and submitting a written page in response to questions where a sentence or two is all that is expected. </p>

<p>I can issue him grades for classes taken online or in a home setting but it was my understanding most colleges would not consider those grades as meaning much. I can see, though, that they would like to knowthat the student does have the ability to perform well in a classroom setting. He does very well in the class room and enjoys his classes immensely. We are at the point of wondering if he should just attend the public high school full time now, but then it would eat into his time to pursue some other things he greatly enjoys. Or just go to the CC full time. Ah, there are so many options. :slight_smile: He is very happy with what he is doing now, so I think I am falling into the over-analyzing problem myself! Gee, guess he got it from me! But, he does want to go to a challenging college program where he will have a lot of research opportunities, so we want to figure out the best way to go from here to there.
Thanks so much!</p>

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<p>Engineering is not just a single general field, but is typically subdivided into areas like civil, mechanics, electrical, chemical, materials, etc…</p>

<p>Both engineering and physics students take math and physics in their first two years; engineering students may take a few introductory engineering courses in statics, materials, electronics, and/or computer science, depending on major. Chemical engineering students take more chemistry as well. At the junior and senior level, course work for the various engineering majors and physics diverges so that engineering students are mainly taking courses specific to their particular type of engineering, while physics students are taking physics courses (which cover various areas of physics which the various types of engineering apply to design things).</p>

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<p>Carnegie Mellon is jumping out here, but I know a few kids that fit this profile pretty closely that are very happy at RIT. They work their tails off, but they love it. Several received very good merit scholarships without tip-top stats. </p>

<p>If your son enjoys robotics (USFIRST?) he may want to look into the possibility of acting as a mentor for an elementary FLL Robotics team. It is one thing to be able to ‘do’ something, it is quite another skill set to be able to ‘teach’. It is an amazing experience for the high school mentor, the elementary school kids, and the adult coaches. I would highly recommend it.</p>

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<p>Adding to posts #3 and #4, Clarkson and RIT are good private engineering schools in the east. Many of the high-ranked USNWR schools are big state universities, with size and research funding helping them in the rankings. You would be out-of-state for the vast majority of them, so they could potentially cost as much as a private school. You can often get better financial aid from a private school than OOS public.</p>

<p>Which state are you living in? Many of them have a public school that specializes in technology, and in all cases that would be a reasonable choice.</p>

<p>Colleges that Change Lives is a good book, but it focuses on small liberal arts colleges (LAC) that rarely offer engineering. They do offer science, and many of their science students are there for pre-med or pre-grad school. </p>

<p>I think you are wise to start looking around early, and to start discussing some of this with your kid.</p>

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<p>OP, make SURE your son takes the PSAT his "jr’ year. If he scores hi enough, he could be eligible for free / reduced tuition at many great colleges. If grad school is likely, then not having to pay $240,000 for an UG education may be a blessing. My son, also a very self motivated learner, passed up many top colleges because of a full tuition scholarship at USC, and will be moving to Cal Tech for his PHD. His good friend, a brilliant, self motivated learner at USC, is graduating at the top of his class with a double major in Physics and Math, and moving on to Cambridge to study computational mathematics.</p>

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<p>What state are you in? There are a number of state U’s that have excellent engineering programs. You might want to start there first and then also consider some privates (CMU, USC, etc.). As ‘ucbalumnus’ said, the different engineering majors are quite different from each other and it can be a factor in his choice - elec eng, mech eng, civil eng, chemical eng, bio eng, computer science/eng, etc.</p>

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<p>

If your financial problem is just that you don’t make much money, the very top private schools are actually the BEST financial bet because they give good need-based aid. If it’s that you make a healthy income and spend it, you’ll need to look for merit aid. FAFSA Forecaster will help you figure out which category you fall into.

Too young to DECIDE, but not too young to know where his very strong interests lie. My kid was planning to go into CS of some sort since before age 14. He’s only 18 now, and still planning to go into it. I’d give a 90% probability that he’ll major in either math or CS.</p>

<p>

Worked for us!!! Actually, he didn’t do CC FULL time, more like half time. The rest was spent doing his own projects, mostly computer-related.

My son never did a math competition at all, but was accepted to Caltech, Harvey Mudd, and Rice.</p>

<p>Check out hoagiesgifted.org. Feel free to PM me if you want more info. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Oldest and middle son both loved math, physics from an early age as well. Both knew they wanted to do something with engineering/physics/math.</p>

<p>Oldest son majored in mechanical engineering and is hoping to be a pilot. Other son who liked the physics more than the engineering was admitted to both MIT and CalTech. He was admitted EA so had time to reflect on what he really wanted.</p>

<p>While he excelled and enjoyed math and science, I encouraged him to look at seemingly unrelated fields that were not necessarily his strongs points. Ie, not matriculate to the science/math magnets or state-sponsored boarding school for math/science but join the football team, wrestling team and cross country…take another foreign language besides Spanish (Greek) and start a peer tutoring program at his hs.</p>

<p>He ended up as capt of the wrestling team, helping many kiddos do well at science fairs, and eventually walking on his universitie’s football team.</p>

<p>He did not matriculate to MIT or CalTech but to a school that would allow him to pursue other subjects, besides engineering and physics…but still very strong in both.</p>

<p>He graduated from first school with a major in econ (calculus-based), a greek studies minor, is finishing up 2 additional degrees at another school in biochem/micro (first school did not have these majors) and will be starting med school this fall.</p>

<p>So just from our expereince, as much as he loves his STEM courses and ECs, where he truly grew was from the studies and activities that he did not initially have an affinity for, he had to really stretch to really grow. </p>

<p>The changes started when he began 8th/9th grade and had not just science APs but history, language, econ…</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>As far as finances are concerned, I just went through the FAFSA forcaster and it put our EFC at 11k. We have 2 kids who will overlap in attending college (S#1 is one grade level above S#1). So that’s 22k per year when they both are in college. Does this seem about right for 105k annual income, about 50k saving, and although it didn’t ask about home equity, we have about 100k equity and average/decent 401k.</p>

<p>I did not think it likely the kids would qualify for financial aid at our income level. I had thought to get into a school more expensive than we could afford would mean the kids trying for merit aid. And, realistically I think the 22k per year is pretty spot on for how much we could afford per year using savings and reallocating funds–although my first thought is where is the world would we get 22k per year from? Any idea of how likely colleges are to consider a FA packet for a family at this income? I know it varies widely, but do not want to set us all up for disappointment. I have read so many stories about kids getting into their dream school, but they cannot make the payments. </p>

<p>We live in Iowa. I know both kids could get a great education at our U. The Univ just doesn’t have the specific type of eng program S#1 would like to pursue, and I do think he would gain a great deal from a demanding program.</p>

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<p>Ivy’s and many tip top U’s don’t offer merit aid, period. But the very richest U’s do have generous FA programs for upper middle class families. For merit $$ you will need to look to some of the Public U’s- or to U’s such as USC, which offer 200 Full Tuition awards each year to tip top students. Your son should apply to a wide range of colleges in order to have financially feasible options, if he strikes out at richly endowed and generous HYPS type colleges.</p>

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<p>My nephew–also dyslexic, good in math, hardworking student–has had a very good experience at Rochester Institute of Technology. He chose the school for its program in Computer Game Design, and because it gave him a nice merit scholarship. RIT has a great co-op program that combines academic work with internships. It’s not as hard to get into, or as expensive, as MIT, RPI, or CMU.</p>