College List for a Science Major

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm new to this forum, and looking for some guidance:</p>

<p>I'm from Southern California, and I know that my eventual undergrad major is going to be science related. It's what I like to do and what I'm good at. I just haven't figured out exactly what field yet.</p>

<p>My scores look something like this:
GPA 4.0 unweighted
SAT: 780 V, 800 M, 800 W
PSAT: 240
Math IIC 800, Chemistry 790, US History 780</p>

<p>First choice: Caltech (Early Action)
High priority: Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley
Medium: UCLA
Safety: UCSD, USC
Considering: Yale, Harvey Mudd</p>

<p>Some comments/questions:
-Is applying Early Action to Caltech the right decision if I think it is a good match for me? My junior year grades were good so I doubt 1st semester this year will affect me much. Is the perceived advantage marginal? If so, is there an advantage to waiting the extra month or two for the RD round and working on perfecting my application? </p>

<p>-If I am accepted Caltech EA, MIT is probably going to fall either to Medium priority or just off my list.
-My parents suggested I apply to the 8-year medical scholar program at USC, but I dont really feel like locking myself into that career path yet.
-I need some help distinguishing between Harvard/Yale/Princeton: I know Princeton is more focused on liberal arts and the "wide spectrum" of learning thing, but aside from that they're still pretty much the same in my mind.
-My counselor suggested Harvey Mudd as a school thats similar to Caltech; small and science oriented. But Mudd is kind of TOO small. It's smaller than my high school, which has around 1,000 students. To me that feels awkward.</p>

<p>Any suggestions on any good universities I've missed? I do prefer to stay in state, but I'm open to anything.</p>

2

<p>Mudd is part of the Claremont Consortium (five undergrad schools and two grad schools) so it can be bigger than 1000 kids.</p>

3

<p>What area of science especially grabs your interest? What kind of intellectual atmosphere do you want in college? Because based on your list of schools and stats, I think USC would not be a good fit. It is primarily a pre-professional school, and has a very small % of hi stat students such as yourself. They are mostly to be found in the Engineering school.
Even though it is out of state I would look at the College of the University of Chicago [4000 undergraduates], which has superb Science depts [the atom was first split there]. Qualified undergraduates have lots of opportunities to take graduate level courses at Chicago and it's overall academic reputation is among the top 10 universities in the world. Statistically, the students there are as smart as those at Stanford, Columbia, and the Ivy's, but because their application, lovingly called called the Uncommon application by Chicago students, serves as a kind of "Geek filter" [as is seems to appeal to many true intellectual types and "filters out" those who don't want to go to the trouble of figuring out if the school is right for them ] Chicago accepts around 30% of all applicants, so I think it it would be a match- safety for you.
Full disclosure- Son was also a hi stats student, was accepted at many colleges, and matriculated at USC on a full tuition scholarship-[something I'm sure you would be offered if you apply before the scholarship deadline]- but transferred this year to Chicago, where he is much happier, more challenged, and is surrounded by smart students like himself.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
-My counselor suggested Harvey Mudd as a school thats similar to Caltech; small and science oriented. But Mudd is kind of TOO small. It's smaller than my high school, which has around 1,000 students. To me that feels awkward.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It really doesn't feel that small when you're here since there are about 6,000 students in the consortium total. There is plenty of interaction between the different schools. I have some friends from off campus, but I know of many people who have lots of off campus friends.</p>

5

<p>Actually I've heard that Princeton is more science oriented than Harvard and Yale (except Harvard's biology program is spectacular).</p>

<p>If you want to stay in state, your list seems perfect (except USC =P)
CalTech, Stanford, and Cal are all top notch for the sciences.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the responses.
-So I guess Harvey Mudd is added to my list, and I should go visit there soon. I had the chance to talk with a friend who's entering his 4th year there, and he seems to really like it there.
-The main reason I'm applying to USC is because of the scholarship opportunity. Along with UCSD, its one of my safeties.
-I'll have to check out University of Chicago too.</p>

<p>I'm still questioning applying early to Caltech. Is it the right decision if I think it is a good match for me? Is there a real advantage in EA? (I know their website says there isnt) Or is there an advantage to waiting the extra month or two for the RD round and working on perfecting my application? I personally don't know anyone who has applied there early, so I'm not very sure.</p>

7

<p>I'm still questioning applying early to Caltech. Is it the right decision if I think it is a good match for me? Is there a real advantage in EA? (I know their website says there isnt) Or is there an advantage to waiting the extra month or two for the RD round and working on perfecting my application? I personally don't know anyone who has applied there early, so I'm not very sure.</p>

<p>There is no drawback, from what I can tell, to applying Caltech EA. You will, however be up against a very strong list of candidates. But, if you get deferred, I believe you are now allowed to update your application to make it stronger. As for perfection your application, remember that it will be due within a small timeframe of all the other crap, so you might be better off finishing it months before. </p>

<p>This gives two other advantages. It gets one application out of the way, so you have a less crowded schedule when it comes to the rest of your apps. Also, it gives you 'practice' in filling out college applications. It wont be long after you submit your application before you start thinking along the lines of 'crap i wish i had done this or that,' which are good thoughts to have before applying to a majority of your colleges. </p>

<p>And of course, Caltech is nonbinding early action so its all good. </p>

<p>And yes, by all means come and visit Mudd. A weekend stay here is often enough to make people nearly certain that this is the place they want to be.
*
My counselor suggested Harvey Mudd as a school thats similar to Caltech; small and science oriented. But Mudd is kind of TOO small. It's smaller than my high school, which has around 1,000 students. To me that feels awkward.*</p>

<p>Do you know how large Caltech is?
*
-I need some help distinguishing between Harvard/Yale/Princeton: I know Princeton is more focused on liberal arts and the "wide spectrum" of learning thing, but aside from that they're still pretty much the same in my mind.*</p>

<p>Yale doesnt really fit in the science category in my mind. Its just not usually associated with it, especially on the levels of Harvard and Princeton. As for those two, they both have great science programs, at least in reputation of difficulty (I hear bad things about the teaching). Princeton does have LAC thinking in mind, but if you look at their rankings in math and physics its quite something. Plus Princeton has spectacular financial aid. </p>

<p>*
Any suggestions on any good universities I've missed? I do prefer to stay in state, but I'm open to anything.*</p>

<p>Cornell comes to mind, though go to someone else for info on THAT.</p>

8

<p>Er forgot to mention</p>

<p>Because of your stats, it appears you will automatically be awarded at $10,000 per year merit scholarship to Harvey Mudd. It helps take the burn off of 48k per year.</p>

9

<p>Keep in mind that you can apply to Caltech EA <em>and</em> MIT EA; many do. If you're considering Yale or Stanford, however, I would recommend applying SCEA. You'd be a good match assuming the rest of your application is as good as your stats, and applying SCEA helps.</p>

<p>I'm extremely biased, but I do think you should at least consider Duke. The sciences here are amazing, and we have the nice weather you're used to. A few examples:</p>

<p>Facilities
-CIEMAS[/url</a>]
-[url=<a href="http://map.duke.edu/building.php?bid=7738%5DFrench">http://map.duke.edu/building.php?bid=7738]French</a> Science Center
-Duke</a> Marine Lab
-Lemur</a> Center
-Phytotron</a> for isotope and plant genomic research
-Duke</a> Forest- with free rental bikes and camping equipment!
-Levine</a> Science Research Center
-Global</a> Health Research Building</p>

<p>Programs
-Biological Anthropology & Anatomy (BA or BS) with concentrations in human evolution, human anatomy, primate evolution, primate ecology, primate social behavior, and paleontology
-Biology (AB or BS) with concentrations offered in animal behavior, biochemistry, cell and molecular biology, ecology, evolutionary biology, genetics, marine biology, neurosciences, pharmacology, and plant systematics
-Chemistry (AB or BS) with concentrations offered in biochemistry, environmental chemistry, and pharmacology
-Earth & Ocean Sciences (AB or BS) with awesome courses like paleontology in Yellowstone, marine geology in Florida, and volcanology in Hawaii
-Environmental Sciences & Policy (AB or BS)
-Physics (AB or BS)
-Psychology (AB or BS) with concentrations offered in biological bases of behavior, cognitive psychology, developmental psychology, and social psychology
-Certificate programs in Global Health, Health Policy, Human Development, Modeling Biological Systems, Neuroscience, and Primatology</p>

<p>Research
-Work in professors' labs
-Volunteer at the medical center
-Howard</a> Hughes
-Deans</a>' Summer Research Fellowship
-Health</a> Policy Scholars
-Dannenberg</a> Awards
-DukeEngage[/url</a>]
-[url=<a href="http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/career/stanback2007/%5DStanback">http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/career/stanback2007/]Stanback</a> internships</p>

<p>Additional Info
-Duke has produced 60 Goldwater Scholars (science/math/engineering), falling behind only Princeton (65) and Harvard (64).
-Duke students can take one class per semester at UNC. The Robertson bus runs between the two campuses every 30 minutes.</p>

<p>Unlike many schools, it really is possible to get involved with exciting research starting freshman year. I signed up to work in a lab and was shocked to find out that the labwork I would be doing was part of an extremely expensive and important experiment on the effect of artificially raised CO2 levels on the environment. Likewise, a friend of mine is doing cutting edge research using remote sensors to monitor sea turtle migrations, and my roommate did supervised research in a cancer research lab.</p>

10

<p>I agree with the poster that suggested Princeton in lieu of Yale for sciences.</p>

<p>You have awesome stats. Congrats on your achievements. </p>

<p>All the schools you listed are excellent. Berkeley, with its comparable prestige in sciences to other schools on the list, in-state tuition is tough to beat. (My biased opinion...;))</p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

11

<p>Might look at Duke-great science facilities.</p>

12

<p>Some advice from a Techer for you. You know Caltech has ~900 undergrads right? I think it's great that Caltech is your first choice, but I caution you, Caltech tends to be a school where "fit" is big issue. I recommend you apply to other good schools other than Caltech, even if you get in early. Once you get into your schools, then do some visits, and see which one you're most comfortable. Caltech has a certain culture to it, and those who go there for only "prestige" don't have much fun with that. </p>

<p>Apply when your essays and stuff are ready. If it's soon enough for EA, then go ahead. It won't really affect your chances whether you apply RD or EA. Your test scores are nice, but they really won't do much in terms of differentiating you from your classmates here or at "that other place" or Stanford. I hope you have a lot of passion for science, demonstrated by research, awards, and/or essays.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

13

<p>Some comments on the smaller schools in your list (I'm also noticing that you have a real variety in school size...it's a good idea to narrow down the type of environment you want to be in, it makes a huge difference):</p>

<p>Caltech is really small, and really intensely focused. Not to knock it, but you need to know what you're in for. Harvey Mudd is also small, and has, for all practical purposes, 6 majors. Something to be careful about if you aren't sure which area of science you want to be in yet. You might try Pomona, also in the Claremont system, for a similar feel, great science, and a little more variety.</p>

<p>Also in the category of small (Warning: shameless plug), I just graduated from Carleton College, which has liberal arts with knockout science. My list of schools I was looking at initially was almost exactly like yours (with fewer UC schools and a couple more in the Midwest), based on similar scores, with a notion of doing something in biology. I ended up with biology and geology majors, and am now in grad school for geology, and can vouch for the great departments at Carleton. I can also vouch that grad schools were falling all over themselves to accept people, particularly the geo grads, many of whom are now at the best geology grad schools in the country. </p>

<p>My suggestion comes from the fact that you're undecided about your direction...a small liberal arts school can still give you the mind-blowing science you're after if you pick carefully, with more time and options for figuring things out, than Caltech, Berkeley, Harvey Mudd, MIT, etc. It also gives you more access to research opportunities that only grad students get most of the time at your more research-focused schools. (For example, all 25 geology majors in my class did field work doing their own research to write the thesis they needed to graduate - mine was in Puerto Rico - which is something you won't find at Berkeley.) In science, the best way to distinguish yourself as an undergrad is to get some solid research under your belt, and small schools have a knack for making that happen.</p>

<p>Hope this helps. Good luck!</p>

14

<p>If you're interested in biology, Yale has an amazing bio department.</p>