College Loans

Paying for College
61

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We didn’t apply to any colleges according to the money we were so busy trying to research and figure out what schools and how to decide what would be actual reaches and what not that we completely didn’t even think of the affordable tuition because all tuition is honestly unaffordable.


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What are your son’s stats? Likely “all tuition” isn’t unaffordable. Your child is a CS major and there are HUNDREDS of very good CS programs all over the country. Likely some would have given your child better aid or merit if he has good stats.

You applied to a lot of OOS publics, and of those, ones that often don’t give very good aid.

Your son may make it thru CS…and might not. Many don’t. Then what? But even if he does, there’s no assurance that he’ll get a job in an area that won’t be expensive to live…making it more difficult for him to pay back the debt.

I hate to see CS and eng’g majors (and their families) taking on big debt because it’s not necessary. A student smart enough to make it thru, likely has the stats to get great merit at a good school.

62

I am so sorry to hear this.

I still cannot understand though - the college told the OP that their EFC is $768+?

And then they offer getting 100K total between you and your son of private loans as a solution to your financial gap?

If I were the OP…

  1. Get your son interested in rolling admissions schools. IIRC, CC always publishes a list, I’m not sure if it is after April 1 or May 1, but it is schools that still have open spots. There is NO reason he should go to ASU and you and he pay costs that are not rational even for Harvard! (and Harvard would give grants!!!).

  2. If he is an engineering major, look to the in-state state college. They usually have pretty good programs and lower costs AND your state might have extra aid if your son stays in-state.

  3. Consider a community college that has a transfer agreement with a four year college. Again, many states have help for students who stay in-state for CC. It is possible he could go to a CC for free!

It’s not too late to look around more. Think of it this way, if he found the girl of his dreams, but she just had to eat caviar and steak and go out to the movies and shows and so on, would he rethink if she were the girl of his dreams?

My family is in a different situation - we are going to end up “taking out” 120K of home equity, or so, from our house. It will essentially be loans, but as needed, even month per month on the tuition plan, and we had paid into it to pay off our house previously. But we have an EFC of 40K! I just feel that your son’s karma is not leading him to ASU unless something significant changes. I’d almost think that you should either write off ASU, making sure your son understands, OR go somewhere other than the FA office, like the Dean of Admissions. It makes me think there was some kind of error or they just don’t want low income kids there.

63

Rhandco…ASU is a public university. It does not guarantee to meet full need for all acceoted students…And it certainly doesn’t do so for OOS students.

Taking out $120,000 in loans, regardless of the source of those loans, is a huge debt burden for college…that will need to be paid back.

There are less expensive options for every college student out there. It might mean community college and commuting from home. It might mean attending college part time while working. It might mean goiing one yea, working one year to save…repeating as often as needed to finish.

There is no one size fits all for making the finances work. But loans in excess if $100,000 for undergrad in any way…in my opinion is too much money in loans.

64

@rhandco You just stepped on your own message. It was a good one until you mentioned that you’re going to borrow $100k+ for your own child’s college. Yes, you have a high EFC, and a high income, but you’re essentially saying, “my kid can go to a pricey college because we can afford to borrow, but YOU cannot.” The amount that you are borrowing is also too much and too risky and also not necessary for all the reasons that you put in the first part of your post.

The problem with the “do as I say, not as I do” message is that the OP feels that as a low income person, she’s having to listen to those with more money criticize her choices, but making those same choices. She already feels like “all colleges are unaffordable, so we have to borrow no matter where he goes.” The best points are ones where she is shown that her child can have affordable choices.

And your statement about there “being an error,” or they “don’t want low income kids” is just naive. This is an OOS public. Do you think they charge high OOS rates just so that they will have to pay out more to “meet need”?? lol

If the OP in instate for NY, then a SUNY school would be FINE for CS and they’d qualify for a good bit of aid …Pell, TAP, and maybe some merit. If the son’s stats are good, then schools like UAH, Miss State, and others would still award good merit. Louisiana Tech and maybe New Mexico Tech and maybe Texas Tech would offer good merit this late in the game.

Sadly, because the OP assumed that all colleges were unaffordable and that they would have to borrow a lot, they never looked at cost.

65

$120,000 in Plus Loans. $120,000 in home equity loans. $120,000 in loans from a bank.

It doesn’t matter. These are all loans. That is a huge amount of debt for undergrad school regardless of the source of the loan. HUGE.

And there are options for all students and their families considering these amounts in loans.

The above poster who is taking out a home equity loan could have gotten her kiddo interested in more affordable options as well. But to be fair…it sounds like their $120,000 in loans is being taken out to fund their $40,000 a year EFC.

The OP to this thread has an under $700 EFC, right. If they were proposing to take out $700 a year in loans, I would support this decision…although really, getting a job would pay that EFC.

66

Before I address other points commenting on my posts, help me understand - is this all because it is a state university and the OP’s son is out of state?

Yes, I did step on my own message, it has nothing to do with logic or fairness. It is reality (like the reality that when my dad was growing up, he had to steal food from the dumpsters behind grocery stores, and if he made a nickel, he would bring it home so his family could buy bread. They were on Relief for many years and would have died without it; he had a sister who died as a toddler due to their poverty).

We got lucky in that we bought a house with 5% down in an area where the value of our house doubled in 10 years. If you can’t buy a house, you don’t have that “luck”. We also both were engineers and make decent money and we waited almost ten years to have children.

So if you think my message was “go where you can afford” but then I am not doing that, you are sort of correct.

I have a mortgage that is a few hundred dollars per month now, and it will go up to at least $2,000 per month by the time my son leaves school. BUT: we could have put that money in a college fund for him and we would be here today with a $2,000 per month mortgage because that’s where the money went - to paying off our house. Our EFC will decrease as our home equity decreases.

I brought up my financial details to show how completely ridiculous ASU is being. There is meeting full need and then there is meeting all but 100K of need for someone with an EFC of less than one thousand dollars per year? Do they truly not want OOS low income students that much (I assume the OP is not Native American by the way, there is a lot of aid available from ASU for OOS Native American students).

And yes - my point is that in my case, we cannot pay the 120K = 4 * 40K EFC out of our college savings because we put our children’s college savings into our house. Which has been a good investment. We will have enough left that if our EFC stays the same, we could pay for all of our children’s college, if the colleges are close to full need like my son’s is.

The details of my case only relate in that I feel there has to be some schools that are more reasonable, even if they don’t meet full need. Even on my son’s college forum, one student has an FA package of 45K of merit loans per year, and after student loans, it will be around 10K per year of loans needed at most, right around the EFC for that family. And that is a private college that doesn’t promise full need. Everything points to them considering FA need once a student is good enough to admit, and they are not alone in that.

Even at the Ivy I attended, they state “no loans” and “full grant” but most families have the student taking out 20K of loans on average over the four years, to pay for the EFC. They technically are one of the least affordable Ivies therefore, if you look at full need vs. what a family takes out loans for.

67

Hi,I think you know that scholarships are gifts. They don’t need to be repaid. There are thousands of them, offered by schools, employers, individuals, private companies, nonprofits, communities, religious groups, and professional and social organizations.If you want student loan then you can try parent plus loan.This is federal student loan that you can borrow.You do have to qualify for it but the threshold is generally low, with a clean credit history. You have to apply through the school and you can borrow as much as you need - up to the cost of attendance minus the financial aid the student already has received.

68

I think paying down/off the house rather than adding that money to a 529 or taxable investments can be a good strategy if your kids attend a FAFSA-only school, you have middle class AGI, and your countable assets are under the protection amount.

69

I do think there is a difference between a family with a good 2 income history to decide to borrow $100k for a child’s education than for a family that is already struggling to borrow even half that… Unfair, but that’s how it is. No different than someone with a good job deciding to buy a $30k car being an okay consumer purchase while that would be foolish for a 16 year old buying a first car.

Some people can pay full price out of pocket, some can do it but need to borrow, and some should not do it if it involves borrowing.

70

@IsItOverYetMom, I understand how difficult this process is. You’re out-of-state for this school, right? What state do you live in? Did your son apply to any schools there?

71

OP is clearly a caring parent in a hard working family…

But I second the opinions offered to OP that $25K x4 = $125K (which could increase if OP starts working and Pell is lost) in loans is simply way too much debt to take on for UG degree, especially for modest income working family.

I would further support advice to turn away from OOS schools, look at an instate option with rolling admissions (there is still time). And if not that, then consider either a community college and transferring in 2 years, or a gap year working and searching out better options.

72

Economo…$25k times 4 is $100,000.

But still, it seems like a lot for this family.

But in the end, it is their family choice.

73

Oops, my bad - moving to quickly —should be $100K in total family loans.

Couldn’t agree more with thumper1 that in the end this is their family choice, as always.

Comment offered in spirit that family should recognize that they would be taking on 4 times the average loan debt load for this school (and more or less the national average), and would be paying approximately another $30-$40K in interest alone in paying off those loans.

74

@IsItOverYetMom I hope you’ll stay on this forum and ask more questions. I think college financing is far too complicated. People here will teach you a lot. Please don’t feel “beat up” because a lot of us are echoing the same advice and it is going against everything you FEEL you must do for your son’s future.

Did your son get accepted at any in state schools? Do you have a financial break down for them?

As someone mentioned he can take a “gap” year and apply early when the h.s. class of 2016 is applying and get some aid in your state. If he does that he should not take any community college classes so he is a “first time freshman.” They get the most aid.

You can go to the websites of some in state schools and do their financial aid calculators. In my state full pay is about $25k for dorm, food and tuition. That would be possible for your son with his grants and $5500 loan. The average debt most students have after four years is about $25k.

Please don’t take out $80k in loans yourself plus $25k in loans in his name. You are gambling. You are gambling on your partner’s continued good health and ability to make high payments for 15 years. You are gambling that your son will graduate with a high earner degree. Something like 25% of all students change their majors.

There is a sad story linked here from last fall where a family borrowed $100k for a daughter’s nursing degree and she passed away. They still owe the money and she won’t be paying her share. Have you even figured out the payments on $80k?

Again, in the end this is your choice. I just think if you do this your son is going to get to junior year and you won’t be able to borrow any more. You have no house or car so what assets can you show the bank? Good luck. I know you want to do what’s best for your son.

75

I think the OP left, because she is determined to borrow and everyone is suggesting she not.

It is very hard when you have limited means and still want your child to get a great education. This site is not good in that regard. It is very heavy on top schools and top programs and they are usually expensive.

Do as I suggest not what “I” plan on doing is tough to hear. Most parents want the best for their kids and will do what they have to to get it.

76

I know this is a lark, but would something like “Teach For America” or another service organization that will pay part of college be an idea?

http://www.petersons.com/college-search/financial-aid-americorps-service.aspx

77

@IsItOverYetMom Your son is an engineering student. Did he not apply to his local state college? Look at the 10 year employment salaries for engineers at your state college vs. Arizona State. They are likely the same. You are making a luxury choice of an Out Of State school and your family will not have any financial gain. In fact it will have a 100k+ financial burden which will be crippling. This is not the way to get out of poverty or break the cycle.

78

Two things - first, the COA can be found on the college websites for most colleges - type “cost of attendance” in the search box, and you should find it. It will have a breakdown of all the costs - this includes not just direct costs, but also indirect costs like books, travel, etc. Second, I highly recommend your son check out petersons.com - my new favorite scholarship search tool. There are many scholarships still available with deadlines in April and May - I’m a counselor at a high school and I’ve used this with several students; consistently I’ve found relevant scholarships I haven’t found with other scholarship searches. Good luck!

79

mommdc - No, it changed this year. Unmarried parents living together must provide financial information for both parents.

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I believe Teach for America is for college grads. This OP is looking for a way to fund undergrad school now. Teach for America won’t do that.