College myth

<p>My dad and I were having a dispute about the possibility of something. </p>

<p>Main quarrel: Can one fail miserably in highschool because of sheer indolence(2.0 GPA) and end up doing incredible in college(3.9 GPA) because of motivation? </p>

<p>I told him that it's an extremely rare occasion, and that not many people could do this. Then he said, "I came from a foreign country, and I just started to learn English when I started college". My dad is an alumni from Tufts University Medical School, so I just kept my mouth shut. </p>

<p>What are your points, and views about this?</p>

<p>It’s certainly possible; I’m sure that some people find high school intolerably boring and thus don’t make an effort to excel. However, when they get to college and pick stimulating courses in a major they find interesting, they might do far better.</p>

<p>Yes, you can. I don’t think it’s all that likely, though.</p>

<p>For example, someone I knew has a son “Andrew” whose family had always believed he was brilliant. They may have been right. He’d certainly succeeded at some pretty impressive challenges he set himself, and he appeared to have done it without much adult support.</p>

<p>The family in general believed that “gifted” kids are often “bored” in school and that as a result they tend not to go to class, not to pay attention to class when they did go, not to do their homework, and not to do well on tests as a result of these other things. Andrew definitely qualified as gifted on all of these counts, and the family reacted admiringly whenever they were called in because he was cutting class or anything like that.</p>

<p>He ended up with a four-year free ride to a public university as a result of his performance in some competition or other (and what he did was really impressive). </p>

<p>When he got to college, he didn’t go to class, didn’t pay attention when he did go, didn’t do his homework, and did badly on tests. His family was shocked. They had been certain that once he got to a school where they taught interesting things his boredom would vanish and he’d work very hard, get good grades, and demonstrate his brilliance through conventional achievement. (The members of his generation of the extended family have all failed pretty spectacularly, in different ways, and I chalk all of it up to the firm belief all the parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles – all college-educated, some with advanced degrees – have that children “develop” completely independent of their experiences and that it makes perfect sense to reward children for behavior you don’t like because when they are “developmentally ready” to behave the way you want them to, they will just start doing it. It is a huge mystery to the adults that these kids continue to behave in the ways they have been taught to behave and never become “developmentally ready” to behave otherwise. Andrew, though, was the oldest and the shock may have been especially great in his case.)</p>

<p>It didn’t surprise me at all: for thirteen years he had been rewarded for approaching academics in a particular way, and I didn’t see why he’d change. While he definitely had academic talents, I doubt that he was equally talented in all fields, and I suspected that being “gifted” and “bored” had especially paid off for him when he didn’t understand something: he wasn’t being rewarded for struggling with it and mastering it but rather for not even trying, and as long as he didn’t try there was no risk that he would “look stupid.” And I suspect that the courses he was taking fell into two categories: courses in things he already knew a lot about, which probably seemed painfully boring to him, but that he couldn’t exempt out of because he’d learned it on his own and had no record of success anyone else could see, and courses in things he didn’t know a lot about, which I suspect were a bit intimidating to him.</p>

<p>But his family doesn’t see the connection: the only reason he had lousy habits in primary and seciondary, they believe, is that he was intelligent, and intelligent people naturally develop great habits in postsecondary education.</p>

<p>At Christmas he landed on academic probation, and he dropped out before he could flunk out in May. He’s had a series of entry-level jobs at different companies, none of which recognize his genius, and he doesn’t seem too happy with his life. </p>

<p>He might have done better, I think, if he’d taken a gap year and worked at some really crappy job (like the crappy jobs he has now). If he’d understood the connection between working hard in college and having access to a job you like, he might have had the desire to overcome his past. But he didn’t.</p>

<p>If you don’t have the self-discipline to succeed through effort in high school, I suspect that it’s hard to develop it in college. I’m sure there are people who do it, but for most people it would be hard. I suspect it’s easier for people who aren’t really indolent, but seem that way to outsiders. </p>

<p>I once worked with “Janet,” a young woman who was in high school, was working as many hours as the state labor board allowed her to and often getting home after midnight because she was taking the bus, was pregnant, and was responsible for looking after her relatives’ kids when she wasn’t at work. Janet was bright and she worked hard, but she was also getting up in the morning after not enough sleep and going somewhere to sit passively in lectures on topics she already understood. She wasn’t doing well in school. If I had been as exhausted in school as she was when I was in school, I wouldn’t have been doing well either. But people thought of her as lazy because she showed up unprepared an awful lot of the time.</p>

<p>Of course, I really doubt that Janet (we lost touch after she quit her job when she had her child) ever had the chance to show what she could have done in college with a 20-hour work week and no childcare responsibilities beyond those associated with her daughter, and I think that’s really too bad. If she’d had the aid Andrew got, I think she could have made an amazing life for herself and for her daughter, and been a great example for the other kids in her family.</p>

<p>Yes. I got a 2.5 in high school, and the only reason it was so high was because I took 12 band classes over the course of five years and got As in all of them, as well as getting As in my three semesters of PE. Without those As I would have probably ended up with a 1.something. I just took my first quarter of college and got almost a 3.9 (it was like a 3.87 or something), and I see myself doing better next quarter because I’m super-excited about my classes (last quarter was all gen ed requirements, most of which I was not particularly interested in).</p>

<p>I think it depends on a lot of things, and those vary from person to person. In high school I would always start off really strong at the beginning of the semester, but about two months in I’d wear down and by the end I’d be failing everything because I burned out. In college, quarters are only 10 weeks so by the time I start wearing down it’s almost done, and I can make myself push through to the end because the end is actually in sight.</p>

<p>Heh. I had a 2.4 GPA both freshman & sophmore year of high school, then realized college apps are coming along so I pulled a 3.9.</p>

<p>The effort required was minimal. I don’t see why it should be so rare.. and when I get to college, I get to take courses that actually interest me.</p>

<p>Aze, why were your GPA for freshman and sophmore year horrible? College apps are heavily associated with your sophmore GPA… </p>

<p>Who cares? You got a 3.9!lol</p>

<p>I had at that time moved from the Danish school system (8-12, optional homework, free to pursue own interest in studies, knew my principal by a nickname) to the German (IB) system (9-16, 1-3 hours of homework per day, uninteresting subjects, knew no-one) so it was a hard transition.. also I wasn’t really convinced by the worth of that kind of school system, so in those two years I handed in exactly 0 pieces of homework, but managed to score top scores on exams to balance out the grade.</p>

<p>Nontraditional, this is exactly what happens when you praise a child for his brains when he is young and not for his effort. there is a thread or a post on here somewhere (today or yesterday) that addressed that very subject. </p>

<p>Really really sad. And I’m in the same boat with my son’s piano (he has natural talent) and now I have to backpedal and tell him it’s all about hard work. He did work at a piano piece, but not enough, and he decided not to go to the end of year recital rather than mess up publicly. He’s a bit of a perfectionist, also. Now he wants to drop out of piano after 3 years of group lessons, which I’m not going to let him do. Had I kept my mouth shut and praised his effort when he was younger, instead of his obvious talent, this probably would never have happened.</p>