I agree with you in principle: that free speech does not mean consequence-free. And within certain limits, I do believe students would be free to say what they like and the school should be free to condemn speech it finds hateful.
However, there is this fallacy that the 1st amendment applies to private institutions. An employer can fire you for saying stuff it doesn’t like; a college can expel you for saying stuff it doesn’t like and/or is in violation of its code of conduct.
Now, on to the merits of “war crimes” and “collective punishment”. It is a war crime to locate military targets in heavy populated civilian areas so I’m glad we agree on this one.
Hamas was elected. And it was elected based on a charter that calls for the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews that live within it. Hamas is simply fulfilling a campaign promise. And that campaign promise brings with it the expected response.
Without going too far down the road of politics, more than 50% of Gaza is under 18 and the last elections held in Gaza were in 2006 (yes 17 years ago). Hamas at the time did not receive a majority of votes then and was not ‘elected’ nor took power by the will of the current residents of Gaza. In case it is at all unclear, I am in no way supportive of or an apologist to Hamas. Terrorists, in my opinion, who terrorize the Palestinians under their control first and foremost.
I also tried to make it clear that the 1st amendment does not apply to private institutions/people. Unless I mistook the situation, @tamagotchi 's son attends a public university which does in fact complicate the actions that can be taken in terms of free speech consequences by the college.
Even more context about this. So the male was not just walking through the protest, but he was getting very close to people within that protest and attempting to take photos of each person. The people in the protest thought the purpose of the photos was to dox them. That was the reason for their reaction and over-reaction.
And you said that Jewish students felt safe and fine at Berkeley just a couple of days ago and Hillel was great there… So what changed? Did these “freedom of hate” protests ignite antisemitism on campus? People have no idea what huge groups of people in their “euphoria” can do. That is why I said before that this madness of “free hate speeches” should be stopped or we will have Kristallnacht in one form or the other.
Not exactly. I said that the Hillel is great, doing a good job of supporting and connecting Jewish students, and that my son felt safe. (I contrasted this with my daughter who is in high school and doesn’t feel safe.)
Hillel is still great and is still doing a good job, but my son is now feeling more threatened by the behavior and attitudes of some other students.
I am going to say something that may get me into trouble, but I am going to take my chances.
I am Jewish. I did not raise my kids to dislike or speak out against any group. My kids are dating/engaged to people of different religions and ethnicities. My kids have friends who are of different religions, races, etc. Everybody is welcomed in my home. That is how my children were raised. My family is Caucasian but if you look closely you will see people who are not. That’s my family. When my daughter was in college she attended a Hillel dinner and her non jewish friends accompanied her. Several took a jewish studies class with her.
Over the past few weeks I have noticed small children in my school who said they need to pray. They were allowed to pray in school (this has since been stopped). These same kids (age 7) are now asking others what their religion is, and are sitting at the lunch table telling others that they need to pray because of what Israel is doing to their people. I am NOT suggesting that all families do this.
It starts at home and has to stop. I am appalled at what I see on college campuses and would absolutely not allow my kids to apply to some of these schools now. I do not agree with how things are being handled, and being scared because you are Jewish is not an option that anybody should live with.
I realize that you were only quoting, what little kids were likely told at home:
Even at that, the key is that children must be very strongly taught that country ≠ race, country ≠ religion.
They need to be constantly reminded that whatever actions countries undertake, must never define how you interact with your fellow people, individuals, who just happen to share that religion, that race (and for some, even that nationality).
That lesson to differentiate seems something that some college-age protestors have not been raised with?
First, you punch the poster, showing it who’s boss… and that this time, you mean business. You aren’t simply there to look at it; oh, no.
Next, slash it with a paring knife from your kitchen – cut that sucker deep several times.
Then, make it bloody by drawing on it with a red Sharpie.
The next step is to erase its message with some Wite-Out.
Next, the tape, nails, screws and/or thumb tacks are unceremoniously removed, allowing the suffering poster to fall to its death on the sidewalk below.
Finally, the poster is set on fire and kicked.
That is how one goes about violently removing a poster. This teaches other posters a lesson: fear the Poster Punisher
An interview with Juliette Kayyem about the current situation and what can/should be done on college campuses and elsewhere. 18 minutes and well worth watching.
StopAntisemitism is identifying these college students (and other adults) very quickly. The non-student adults are rapidly being fired from their jobs, board positions, etc. I don’t believe I’ve seen a college student who has been expelled yet (the Cornell student was arrested, has he been officially expelled?)
I watched a recent video of a particularly hateful college student who was peeling off little pieces of the posters in NYC (it’s a lot of work to peel off tiny pieces of the posters that are solidly affixed to the poles in NYC - it would be almost comical to watch, if the motive behind it wasn’t so hateful). Anyway, she was very vocal, with many explicative-laden anti-Israeli comments and didn’t care that she was being filmed. She too was quickly identified on social media.
My question is if these students (and others) feel so much hatred and are promoting so much support for Hamas and justification for what they’re doing, then what are they doing here, ripping off little pieces of posters?? On a scale of one to beheading, ripping down posters does little to support the cause - it’s pretty cowardly, actually. Get on a plane and put your money where your mouth is. I would gladly buy this pretty, fair-skinned red-headed young woman a ticket to the Middle East, so she can really join the fight, and see how long she lives over there.
