College Selection?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>I am pretty confused about which college to choose. I want to go to a university as a civil engineering major or general engineering major and mix in some public policy and pre-law classes. I need to be able to play trumpet in some music ensembles and maybe take some music classes as a music-minor.</p>

<p>After undergraduate education, I want to either go to law school or graduate school to study architectural acoustics or some other branch of civil engineering (structurally based). I might even want to do politics later in life. Students on campus need to be active and excited to be there, an intellectual environment is a plus, research opportunities with professors are required (internships / coops, etc.), and there has to be some kind of social life (not just drinking and homework). Diversity is a good thing, but that can be diversity in any realm (experiences, backgrounds, political views, etc.). The campus should be attractive as well. So with that said, here is where I am realistically deciding between:</p>

<ul>
<li>Penn State University, Schreyer Honors College</li>
<li>Duke University</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University</li>
<li>Swarthmore College</li>
</ul>

<p>Penn State:
The Schreyer Honors College has so many great qualities - priority registration over everyone at Penn State, study abroad paid for (as many times as you want to study abroad), better dorms, central location on campus, guaranteed housing four years, connections in research, and Penn State engineering is so strong with 1 in 50 engineers in nation from PSU. PSU is cheaper than the others. PSU was not diverse at all – the brochure said “12% students of color” as in 12% of 40,000 students … kind of scary. The campus was beautiful, but PSU could be a little cold for me in the winter. The stereotypical college town. Research opportunities available.</p>

<p>Duke:
Duke was nice, but I wasn't wowed by their CivE department and people were very laid back. At Duke, it didn't seem like people were that intellectual, but their sports program is a great unifying activity and everyone was very friendly. The climate was great. There were a LOT of premeds and BME majors at Duke, but maybe that is a good thing so that I will be more likely to get research funding in a small department. I’m not sure people in business will respect a Duke CivE degree. Not much financial aid. Duke has a great public policy major. The pre-professional advising is great. There was a big emphasis on getting wasted … not a good thing. Everyone helps each other in CivE to learn material. Very diverse. Not as white and elitist and conservative as I originally thought. Not as Southern. Durham is kind of shady. Research opportunities available.</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins:
I live very close to Hopkins. Hopkins was nice - they have a great music program at Peabody, an orchestra and band on campus for JHU students only, a structural based CivE department, many research opportunities, and a balanced group of students (besides the large number of premeds and BME people). I’m not sure people in business will respect a Hopkins CivE degree. Not much financial aid. JHU has a great public policy major or minor. I heard it can be very cutthroat. Very diverse. Baltimore can be kind of shady.</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon:
Carnegie Mellon is a fantastic school for CivE and engineering in general. It also has a great arts and music program, and they gave me a great aid offer (unlike JHU, Duke, and Swarthmore). I am worried the CMU music might be too good to include me as a non-major, but I like the campus. CMU has a public policy minor. The campus was beautiful, but Pittsburgh could be a little cold for me in the winter. Very diverse. Pittsburgh is a great college city. Research opportunities available.</p>

<p>Swarthmore:
Swarthmore was gorgeous and there was a great intellectual feel on campus. The music facilities were stunning and the engineering is great as a general major. My concern about Swarthmore is that the engineering will be too broad and that there will not be great research opportunities compared to other schools. Also, Swarthmore might be a little too small for me. Not much financial aid. Swarthmore has classes in public policy. Study abroad is somewhat covered. The undergrad experience is unrivaled and very intense. I will have a good chance of grad school or law school from Swarthmore. Very diverse.</p>

2

<p>You seem the most excited about swarthmore... I think that alone is a good reason to choose it. However, there are fantastic opportunities to do research on campus - Swarthmore is very generous with funding to do research over the summer, and there will be many profs looking to hire students over the school year. Keep in mind that at a school like CMU you will be competing with graduate students for funding and spots - I know of at least one swat alum doing grad school in engin at CMU who thinks his undergrad preparation was fantastic. I don't think you can go wrong with swat.</p>

3

<p>I'll give you my two cents for whatever it's worth. I am a current Swattie and I've spent substantial time at Carnegie Mellon (my boyfriend goes there), although he is a CS major, so not really what you are into, but </p>

<p>As far as Swarthmore goes, my roomate is in the engineering program and although you do pick a sort of "concentration," it isn't super specific. It's a really small program comparated to those at larger universities (word on campus is that there are only 13 engineers in the rising senior class). That being said, Swarthmore is heavily recruiting engineers, and the program itself is supposed to be fabulous (although very difficult!!!!!). My roomate loves it. She came undecided and is now set on engineering, despite the time it takes up at the 8:30 classes (Eck!). It's totally worth it to her. As far as research goes, I am not sure about engineering, but research in bio, chem, physics, even psych, is easy to come by, even for freshmen, as there is competition from graduates. Also, you can always look at Bryn Mawr, Haverford, and UPenn, which are a train/van ride away. As far as music, the offerings here seem great, and friendly, and it would DEFINETELY be possible for you to get a minor, even while being an engineer. I know students who are taking 3, even 4 music credits on top of their 4 credit course load. Also, the music department will bend over backwards to make things work for you. I know that they have paid (at least partially) for students to get lessons off campus (some as far away as New York!). One of my friends is taking lessons with one of the best clarinetists in the US. Had she gone to a conservatory or even a big school, that option would not have been available to her. Students here are intellectual and friendly, and there are things to do besides drinking......I think you already know all of that stuff.</p>

<p>As far as Carnegie Mellon goes, its a SUPER great institution if you KNOW what you want to do and really want to dig in deeply with it. As a freshman, my boyfriend already has a part time job with intel collaborating on a long-term research project. He is in love, spending the whole summer there, basically never wants to leave! The research opportunities are amazing, as the nearly all the faculty are involved in research. I don't know if its super accessibly for undergrads, but see case above. As far as music goes, I know its easy to get involved in low key things, like informal quartets, bands, etc. As far as taking classes for credit and potentially being a minor, that might be a different story. As far as social atmosphere, Pittsburgh is GREAT, and campus life, it seems, really depends on where you live/how far you are willing to go out of your way to be social. There are definetly tons of introverts there who stay in their room and play world of warcraft all day, but there are also parties, frats, movies, cool clubs, concerts and talks (Ira Glass came tgo speak!!!!) and good dorm life if you get onto a good floor. </p>

<p>Sorry for being so longwinded. </p>

<p>let me know if you'd like to know anything else.</p>

4

<p>It sounds like you have a handle on the various schools, so just a few random observations:</p>

<p>a) Penn State has the highest published binge drinking rate I've ever seen. 60% in 2003, 55% in 2004. Compared to a national average of 44%.</p>

<p>b) Carnegie Mellon is one of those universities that has fairly rigid borders between schools, i.e. a bureaucratic climate where there is little or no cooperation between the engineering school and the music departments. That would concern me for a student who wants to study engineering AND music or poli sci or whatever. You are exactly the kind of student who should pay particular attention to these kids of bureaucratic turf battles at each school you consider, especially because you could very well end up majoring in engineering and minoring in something else OR vice versa. Academically, probably the number one differentiating characteristic of a good liberal arts college is that students are encouraged to cross departmental boundaries.</p>

<p>c) An engineering student at Swarthmore is basically going to have one-on-one mentoring relationships with engineering professors for much of the undergrad years. That could translate into a number of oportunities -- doing research with one of the professors (often paid positions at Swarthmore), participating on the robotics team, internships lined up by the professors, etc. There are only about two engineering majors for each engineering professor (and no grad students).</p>

<p>d) Both mechanical and civil/environmental are two of the areas of concentration offered by the Swat engineering department:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/academics/major.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/academics/major.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

5

<p>Carnegie Mellon has rigid boundaries once you pick your major, however, some majors even REQUIRE you to have a minor outside the department (I am not sure about engineering). So, in those cases, you are definetly encouraged to take things out of your intended major's department and to minor in something completely unrelated.</p>

6

<p>Do Swat engineering grads have any difficulty getting engineering jobs straight out of college? Would I have to go to grad school? Also, would I actually begin any engineering classes during my freshman year? I'm feeling a little torn between Chemistry and Engineering.</p>

7

<p>No. No. Yes. Many engineers take chem 10 first semester, so you could take the chem and engin intro classes and see which you liked.</p>

8

<p>dreamer88 - I haven't known anyone with a Swat engineering degree who had any trouble getting a job out of college. You would definitely be taking engin classes starting in the first semester, too.</p>

9

<p>Thanks! I'll check it out at RTT on Thursday.</p>

10

<p>Is there a good course at Swat for someone who really is unfamiliar with engineering but would like to have a sample to see if it might be an area that they would like to study? Thanks.</p>

11

<p>There's an environmental engineering class for non-majors. As I understand it, there's less math than in other engineering classes and more field trips. I don't know if it would be too easy for someone seriously considering engineering. I do know that at least some advisors won't sign off for prospective majors to take it because it's "too easy."</p>

12

<p>In the end, there was no other choice but Swarthmore. My decision was the culmination of six college visits in two weeks ... and as much as it pained me to check no to all of the other schools (because those were different future paths disappearing before my eyes), Swarthmore just seemed like the right fit. The attention you get by professors is amazing - ex: the ability to call up a prof and talk for half an hour or more in an afternoon about college.</p>

<p>Where else could you do that and get such a low key relationship with teachers? Where else would professors be willing to talk for so long and not feel antsy about time? Where else would you get such great advising? Where else could I go as an engineering major and still play music freely and at such a high caliber and be able to do public policy and spanish at such a high level? Where else could I visit and by the end of the day be recognized by so many students and treated so nicely? It was like coming home when I went there, and the classes were fantastic.</p>

<p>While there is no real way to see the future, I got the feeling that after four years at Swarthmore I would become the person I want to be - socially aware, more open-minded, intellectual, able to string words together ... lol. And I don't think I would become as great of a human being at the other schools. I may have been smarter and a good person elsewhere, but not great. Hopefully I made the right crazy choice. At least I made a well-informed, crazy choice.</p>

13

<p>stuckinlimbo,</p>

<p>Good for you - congrats! (I guess you're not "stuckinlimbo" anymore ;)...)</p>

14

<p>Stuckinlimbo, congrats and same feeling about your name. :)</p>