College sports and top academic US universities

[politeperson]

I hear this view a lot and it does sound reasonable if one hasn’t been exposed to what life as a recruitable HS athlete is like.

My sport is track not swimming but I think it’s similar. No question genetic tools are necessary. But they aren’t sufficient to be recruited.

Taking your example of Johnny and Mike, and assuming Mike is an average varsity swimmer…Johnny and Mike probably aren’t spending the same amount of time training and competing. Johnny is competing for state, regional, possibly national championships. He is likely competing at invitationals during the season that Mike isn’t. His season is longer, his commitment and time spent during the off-season far higher, and the intensity of his focus during the season qualitatively different.

Mike can miss sleep to finish a paper, eat whatever he wants before a race, take a few weekends off during the season, and spend very little time focused on swimming in the off season without anyone noticing how it affects his performance.

Johnny can’t do any of those things because missed off season training, poor sleep and nutrition, not rehabbing injuries, skipping big meets, poor mental focus, not doing all the little things right will cost him a spot on the podium and likely recruiting interest.

There’s just a huge difference—in terms of dedication, time, focus, and stress—between being a participant and being an elite and recruitable athlete. I spend a decent amount of time around HS athletes and the difference is pretty stark in terms of mindset and dedication to excelling at the sport. I know parents of participants that didn’t even know the state meet was happening, let alone regional or national meets. Their kids are already focused on papers, exams, hobbies, college apps by that point. And they are baffled by the idea that a sport would affect family vacation plans, prom attendance, the ability to take the ACT more than once.

The other difference I see is that competing to win throughout a season is completely different than simply participating. It’s the difference between an intensive technical job interview and hanging out at the coffee shop with friends. Both might only take 3-4 hours but that doesn’t mean they are the same thing.

[LurkerJoe]

Recruited athletes are absolutely helped by their genetics, as is every student accepted at Harvard. An average person can’t get into the top schools by just hard work. Very few people can get into the top schools through sheer talent.

Neither great genetics, nor hard work, will be sufficient to be awarded an admissions slot at Harvard (13th at D1 NCAAs) or Stanford (7th at D1 NCAAs) for swimming. They go to kids who have both. You need freakish talent and Spartan discipline to go times that Harvard and Stanford are looking for. The kids at the local USA club swim program are putting in 8 or 9 workouts a week. Probably 20 hours a week in the water, plus commuting and weekend swim meets. Maybe two weeks off all year. You are in pain and tired most of the time. Its hard. Kids do this because they love the sport and are driven to do their best. Only a fraction of the kids doing the work put up times that Harvard and Stanford are looking for. If you can do the times and put up a Harvard-recruitable transcript, I suspect you could instead put half that time into extra studying and get straight As in high school pretty easily.

If you aren’t 6’4" and looking to be a recruited athlete at Stanford, you could simply run a 4:08 1600M your junior year in high school. That could get you into a discussion with the coaches. There is a much wider range of viable heights for running, but its still not easy.

It’s debatable whether these athletes are a better use of an acceptance than an extra straight-A high school student. Regardless of where you are on that issue, swimming or running success are certainly not an easy path in.

[gpo613]

@politeperson & @LurkerJoe The first thing I will do is take Stanford out of the equation. Anyone that knows swimming knows Standford is an elite swim school especially women.

I understand elite swimming way more than the average CC poster. My oldest swam with the best club in the state for many years. She knew kids that went D1(all levels of D1) and two that went to Yale and two that went to Penn. For the most part the National kids swam 2-3 weeks longer than the others. Guess what most of the kids that didn’t make Nationals really wanted to extend their season. Was it harder for the D1 level kids in HS than the regular kids I would say yes. Remember in my comparison I was saying Mike and Johnny spent the same time. But let’s look at the non-recruited kid compared to the recruited.

Most kids in swim know if they will be D1 level by the time they hit HS especially the girls. A boy might grow 4-6 inches and start dropping major time. That doesn’t happen for girls while in HS. So you are a girl that knows you aren’t going D1 in swim at the latest sophomore year. The recruited swimmer probably gets by with a 32 or 33 for an Elite university. He/she has the times took the ACT early junior year of HS or even over the Summer and the coach says the spring of Junior year I want you. I see your great GPA and very good score. Just keep it up senior year and you will be in.

Now the non-recruited swimmer has a different path. He/She take the ACT and gets a 32 early in junior year. Well we know that probably won’t cut it. So they get on the let’s get that 35 or higher score path. That means prep for the test. Also you better be taking all the toughest classes your HS offers which probably means plenty of AP. The non-recruited swimmer probably doesn’t have as many Saturday workouts, but he/she needs to fill that resume with something. And heck the swimmer might even play water polo for part of club season. Hey that still takes time. He/she probably should be working to get some $$ as well. At the end of the day the non-recruited kid has a much more tougher path to get to the elite school.

I watched it with my own eyes. I watch my D19 continue to swim and play water polo junior year of HS and take 5 AP classes while doing it. The non AP class was equivalent to Trig. There wasn’t much sleep for that kid that year.

If she had National times she would have been snatched up by plenty of schools with her academics. She probably would have only taken 3 AP classes that year. Wouldn’t have had to prep for tests. Sure it would have been grueling to keep those times, but just as doable than going crazy putting a great application together in other avenues.

[LurkerJoe]

I absolutely agree that doing all the swim work with 80% of the talent needed to get a slot is an especially difficult path to get into the top schools. That is much harder than just grinding away at the grades and scores and not swimming at all. Swimmers are going to swim, and they are better fot it–even if they don’t get into Harvard or Stanford. There are lots of great schools and great swim programs for those swimmers to have great experiences at. As someone who didn’t have the talent to swim at Stanford or Harvard, I still had a great college swimming experience (and fantastic undergraduate education), and I wouldn’t trade it for the world.