<p>I don’t think getting caught three times represents a drinking problem–maybe going to the health center three or even two times for drunkenness might. It seems to me that getting caught three times reflects a failure to understand the college’s actual alcohol enforcement practices.</p>
<p>As to what to do, it seems to me that it matters a lot what this college is like. If there is a ton of drinking all the time, and this was just bad luck, I can’t see the point in punishing this kid. You are just buying into the hypocrasy if you do. If it’s a school that is really serious about curbing drinking, then this kid has a problem with obeying rules.</p>
<p>I am quite surprised that he was fined all 3 times. In many schools, it’s 3 strikes and you’re out (for a semester). And that actually works better than $50 fines each time. Both of my kids, who have since graduated from college, have told me of judicial hearings and sanctions slapped on kids upon a second offense. Regardless of whether kids are always drinking on campus, or kids will be kids, it is a violation of the law, and not just campus rules. It’s tough stuff.</p>
<p>I don’t think that a PT job will do anything to stop the behavior, stop breaking the campus rules, or breaking the law, and MY SON is going to have a PT job over the holidays (his decision, not mine and not a punishment. I just cannot afford to pay for the extras that he would like).</p>
<p>I would be worried about my kid developing a substance abuse problem, and I would want to rule this out. I also would worry about him getting kicked out of dorms and/or school for a semester. </p>
<p>My solution would be to talk to my son openly (no yelling, no lecturing) to gather information about drinking, other drugs, party behavior, grades, how students are usually dealt with at this school when caught for underage drinking as well as illegal drugs. This would be the time that I would ask a question and then just listen. Once I had all of the information in front of me, assuming that my child does not have a problem with alcohol I would let my child know that I will not pay for off campus housing if they are kicked out of dorms. Additionally, I would let them know that I am not paying for any fines, lawyers, classes about substance abuse or any other bills associated with irresponsible and illegal behavior. If my kid had a car on that campus, it would be gone, period.</p>
<p>My oldest son’s college had a three strikes and you are out of the dorm rule but not kicked out of school also with a $50 fine if the college caught you. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know what the rules are at son #2’s college not something I was concerned about with #2 last year and he’s living off campus this year.</p>
<p>3x in one year is definitely conversation worthy. It’s not all that difficult to be discreet if you are going to break the rules which many, many kids do and don’t get caught unless you are getting extremely intoxicated when you drink and that is m even more important concern.</p>
<p>If a kid is cited three times, that seems like more than bad luck to me. But that’s why I asked OP in what time span this was. If it’s three since he started there more than a year ago, that’s one thing. But if it’s three since the beginning of this school year, that seems excessive. What is this kid doing/not doing to get cited so often? Is he indiscreet? Falling-down drunk and a spectacle? Passed our in the quad? That’s what I would want to know …</p>
<p>Understand and agree with your point. However, the prohibition era is probably a better historical example…especially considering that during the Colonial era…they actually drank far more per capita than most adults today. </p>
<p>IMO, this 21 and up drinking law and the conflicts our society have had with alcohol usage actually encourages alcohol abuse…especially the zero tolerance laws in some areas where parents could actually be prosecuted for providing some wine/beer to teach their children responsible drinking before they are 18/21 and officially adults. </p>
<p>Families which practice this form of education in drinking…including my father would have been prosecuted and denounced by those with neo-prohibitionist tendencies. Ironic considering the undergrads most likely to go wild with drinking, partying, and more at the expense of their academics and conduct records tend to be those whose parents who are excessively overprotective, repressive, and/or micromanaging during their adolescent years. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I don’t keep alcohol at home even as a thirtysomething because I only drink on the few occasions when I’m socializing at parties or musical venues.</p>
<p>I can only be thankful S’s school doesn’t have fines - and if they do have fines, he hasn’t told us about them. However, the first time he was caught, it was the first weekend of freshman year. Was caught 2nd time after his last final on the last day of sophomore year having a beer in his suite with his roommates. Personally, I thought the pubic safety officer was an A** for busting a small group like that. But whatever. He was almost caught again this fall, but literally went out a window to avoid a citation. Ridiculous! And now, I just thank God the kid has finally turned 21!!!</p>
<p>In thinking about the math involved, I can only assume his ability to NOT get caught far outweighed the times he did. I think few of us can even know what kind of weirdness it is to be an illegal drinking age for over half of our four years of college. </p>
<p>And, for purposes of this conversation, I would never assume a kid isn’t taking advantage or appreciating his education because he’s been busted drinking. Son is an almost perfect ACADEMIC who makes paying his tuition pretty painless (well, as painless as writing that size a check can be)!</p>
<p>If it were my kid, I would not punish him at all. He is an adult, he knew the rules, he made the decision, and he alone must deal with the consequences, including paying the fine.</p>
<p>If a future violation results in his being ejected from on-campus living, then he should be responsible for any increase in expenses, but it may turn out to be cheaper and a non-issue.</p>
<p>@cobrat, not sure that 21 drinking age actually encourages alcohol abuse, as you suggest. I remember when drinking age was 18, and believe me there was plenty of abuse back then. </p>
<p>Also, most reasearch supports limiting children’s exposure to alcohol, primarily because brain continues to develop into mid-20’s.</p>
<p>I’m concerned that the way those laws are written and enforced in many areas of the US are such that parents who want to teach their adolescents/young adults to drink responsibly before adulthood/21 have a justifiable fear of being prosecuted and pilloried by those with neo-prohibitionist tendencies. </p>
<p>Their effects cause far too many parents to prohibit any drinking…or even the discussion thereof…which causes many such overly sheltered adolescents/young adults to view alcohol as a “must have” forbidden fruit and thus, drive them to drink irresponsibly when they feel they can get away with it or when they turn 21. </p>
<p>Saw far too much of this behavior in the greater Boston area on the streets and when visiting friends on their respective campuses and among colleagues who turned 21 after college and ended up drinking themselves to the ground because of the “forbidden fruit” factor and because they didn’t know their tolerance beforehand.</p>
<p>“cobrat, not sure that 21 drinking age actually encourages alcohol abuse, as you suggest. I remember when drinking age was 18, and believe me there was plenty of abuse back then.”</p>
<p>We have LOTS of studies on this one - hundreds of studies - even good studies of whether it is a good idea for parents to share alcohol with children at home. The 21 drinking age has reduced alcohol abuse, reduced long-term alcoholism and lifetime alcohol problems, and saved quite literally thousands of lives.</p>
<p>Now there may be reasonable arguments to reduce the drinking age, but reducing alcohol abuse isn’t one of them.</p>
<p>(Oh, and by the way, if the forbidden fruit argument held water, then college drinking would be highest the first year. Well guess what? (It’s not even close.)</p>
<p>Back to our regularly scheduled programming, if the OP’s son has already been caught three times drinking (and the school - if it’s like most schools - isn’t really going out of its way to find drinkers), chances are he’s among the 44% of college students who binge drink at least once every two weeks. My approach is NOT to punish him, but simply to note that it is clear he has too much time on his hands. A 20-hour a week job would help deal with that greatly.</p>
<p>We loaded up with various insurances while he was late HS senior. Wasn’t gonna wait till he was in college or in trouble. He paid for the policies from his UGMA (I was the custodian) and I owned the policies. Insurance is insurance. Wishing doesn’t buy you anything.
:)</p>
<p>Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but it was certainly the case according to friends who were students/RAs on the campuses in the greater Boston area. It was one factor in why there were quite a few freshmen who didn’t last a year or even a semester on such campuses. They died from alcohol-related incidents, had to medically withdraw, tossed out for too many alcohol-related violations…including disciplinary/judicial infractions, or were academically expelled for flunking too many courses due to drinking too much.</p>
<p>Also…where do we draw the line on having the government/law enforcement trying to micromanage young adult lives in the name of supposedly “protecting them”?</p>
<p>Your last point is one worth considering. (Freedom v. public health is always an reasonable issue to discuss. I happen to find the fact that 14 year olds are now less likely to get alcohol because they are less likely to get it from 18-year-old high school students particularly compelling. I think the decisions to lower the voting age and raise the drinking age made perfect sense. But I can well understand people feeling differently.)</p>
<p>Your first ones are anecdotes masquerading as evidence.</p>
<p>We really do have 30 years worth of data on this question. Oh, and we know who drinks most heavily as first-year students, too. Data is overwhelming. Those who drank most heavily in high school. (actually, it is those who drank most heavily in JUNIOR high school.)</p>
<p>It’s not a “neck of the woods” question. Monitoring the Future has been tracking this for more than 30 years. It can divide data by region, by state, by age, by previous drinking, by race, etc., virtually any way you like. It certainly is NOT true in Boston area, or anywhere else. I happen to do this for a living.</p>
<p>That said, back to the OP - it is not likely that her son will stop drinking easily. But it is likely that placed in a different environment, with different expectations and responsibilities, drinking behavior would change.</p>
<p>I think it’s been shown that alcohol abuse is most likely to occur freshman year, and therefore would be highest. This is not to say that it doesn’t continue after that, but more than a few students actually learn a lesson and avoid doing it again. So I don’t really get the “not even close” comment, and I absolutely think that drinking in a dorm room, pre-gaming etc is a very different level of alcohol intake than at a bar or other public space where behavior is much more likely to be slightly regulated.</p>
<p>And at S’s school, it is clear they go looking for it. A recent article in the paper quoted the public safety officer as saying they specifically go to where there is a likelihood of drinking. Additionally, this was part of a larger article where the student complaint countered that this also means they might show up where perfectly legal aged students are drinking, but because there were more than 10 people or something and they have not registered for a party, they shut the thing down as if they were there to thwart impromptu gathering of students.</p>
<p>The point of this, however, is not really to bust upperclassmen, but to catch the stupid freshman early and often who haven’t a clue what their limits are because they’ve been leading those sheltered lives. Still… </p>
<p>As a parent who wants to obey the law, and has set the example that getting away with something is not the same as being honorable, it’s really difficult to walk the line between understanding and complicity. </p>
<p>Again, I am so glad he is now 21. But still have one last kid to get there as well.</p>
<p>Monitoring the Future indicates that drinking increases among youth every year from age 18 to 21-22. (Also not surprising as fraternity/sorority membership, which is closely associated with heavy drinking, often begins second year.) What is true, however, is that the greatest jump from abstinence to drinking occurs when students go off to college. More critically (and here in the grain of truth in Cobrat’s observation, and Modadunn’s good observation the point is to catch stupid freshman early), binge drinking takes its highest leap between high school (from around 23% to around 40%). It isn’t that the the first-year rate is highest, but the year-over-year difference is greatest.</p>
<p>I’ve often wondered what I would have done if faced with the college drinking question for my own kids. I wasn’t. (I have my suspicions as to why, but that’s another subject.) I think I would likely have done what I suggested earlier. I can’t control their lives. On the other hand, there are certain things under my control - one of them being money - and I might try to leverage it’s impact.</p>
<p>Maybe others can comment on what they’ve actually done tht has worked.</p>