college visit to Boston--good music programs?

College Search & Selection
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<p>This is my first thread, so bear with me.</p>

<p>I am going with my mother to Boston on Wednesday, April 18th (getting in around 11) through Sunday, April 22. Originally, when this trip was planned, I was a bigger BU fan than anything else. We were going to visit BU, Wellesley, Harvard (my mother's idea of "fun") and Tufts. However, since I've been reading review after review and scouring the internet, BU no longer seems to be desirable for me. </p>

<p>My "ideal" school (although I'm really not certain of anything at this point which is a little scary) is a liberal-arts school with a solid music program, because I think I want to double major in Viola Performance and Sociology/Economics/Business. I'm a junior, have a 3.9 unweighted GPA, haven't taken either standardized test (can you sense my apprehension?) but scored a 32 on some practice ACT thing I took on a whim. Lots of AP classes, etc etc. I'm fairly decent at the viola, went to Interlochen last summer and got 4th in all-state, but I'm no prodigy nor do I want to be. I'm not really sure of my chances anywhere, honestly, but I'm pretty positive I could get in anywhere with a 40% acceptance rate and up. But I really have no clue.</p>

<p>My first concern is this upcoming trip. There don't seem to be many schools in the Boston area besides BU that have good music programs that AREN'T conservatories (no thank you to NEC, BC). My family doesn't have the money to individually visit every school in the book that might fall under the "LAC with good music" category--not to mention pay for college, yipee-- so I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck out of this trip.</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure about visiting Tufts and Wellesley--but where else, either in the Boston area or fairly close by (that I can convince my mother to drive to or take a train, and also to not take up precious time traveling), might be a good fit?</p>

<p>Options I've thought of:
-Hartford. I know they have the Hartt school, but I've read tens of terrible reviews. I really don't want to go to a school that people don't even like. In theory I would like to enjoy my college experience.</p>

<p>-Wesleyan. I don't know if their music program is worth my time. Plus the school itself is pretty competitive. I don't want to spend all this money on college if there are only going to be 5 other majors...</p>

<p>-UConn. I keep ruling this out but I don't remember why. I don't mind state schools but I'd rather have more of an intellectually stimulating environment and community.</p>

<p>-Williams. This is my favorite option so far, but it's a bit of a drive (3 hours one way) and I don't even know if I could get in.</p>

<p>-Yale. I wish...</p>

<p>Are there any hidden gems I'm missing? Should I reconsider some of these options? Will I be able to go anywhere other than community college (not that it's the worst plan in the world)? Thank you!</p>

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<p>Harvard does have a dual degree program with NEC:</p>

<p>The Five-Year Dual Degree Program in Music</p>

<p>Overview</p>

<p>The Harvard/NEC program is a joint five-year program leading to a Bachelor of Arts (AB) at Harvard College and a Master of Music (MM) at New England Conservatory. During the first three years of the program, students pursue the AB curriculum in the concentration of their choice at Harvard and take studio instruction each semester at NEC. Ensemble participation at either institution is encouraged for these three years. In the fourth year of study, students will complete all requirements for the AB degree at Harvard (and graduate) while beginning to fulfill NEC’s MM degree requirements. Students will receive the MM degree from New England Conservatory after successful completion of the fifth year of study.</p>

<p>The program is open to high school students who apply to both institutions separately through each institution’s normal admissions process.</p>

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<p>Northeastern and New England Conservatory also have very large cross-registration. They are next door (well NEC is pretty much inside) and NEC uses NU’s gyms and dining halls. That may be a good choice if you are looking at something thats harder to get into than BU, but obviously less difficult than Harvard/Tufts admissions wise. Northeastern also has a great Music Industry program if you are at all interested in exploring that option.</p>

<p>[Courses</a> at NEC : Department of Music](<a href=“http://www.music.neu.edu/advising/courses-at-nec/]Courses”>http://www.music.neu.edu/advising/courses-at-nec/)</p>

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<p>There is one you are missing–Brandeis. [Undergraduate</a> Program | Department of Music | Brandeis University](<a href=“Bachelor of Arts in Music | Undergraduate Program | Department of Music | Brandeis University”>Bachelor of Arts in Music | Undergraduate Program | Department of Music | Brandeis University)</p>

<p>A great small liberal arts orientated research university 9 miles west of the financial district in Waltham. Mary Ruth Ray is the viola professor. [Mary</a> Ruth Ray](<a href=“Error | Brandeis University”>Error | Brandeis University)</p>

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<p>alto, I’d take the time to visit Williams and Wesleyan. I’d also take a look at Smith which is not too far from Williams. You have the grades to get in and at all music is a valuable EC. The atmosphere of each is quite different, so it’s important to visit to see how it appeals to you. Try to set up an appointment with someone in the music department to get an idea of the program. My guess is that they will be VERY receptive to you.</p>

<p>Williams is the one I’m most familiar with. Very good music department, lots of performance opportunities, and double majoring is quite common, even encouraged. No business per se, but sociology and economics are also very strong.</p>

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<p>I second and third the recommendations for Brandeis, Williams and Wesleyan. Maybe for a different trip you might consider looking at Skidmore. Tufts, Brandeis, Williams and Wesleyan are all selective academically. You also have to examine financially what is doable as it is increasing difficult to get merit money in some of these schools. Don’t be too hasty in judging BU. You can double major in music and another subject but it is larger school and the larger the school, the more bureaucratic. My older d attended Brandeis, not for music… but the music program is strong and well-regarded. Tufts also has a good reputation and younger d who went to Rochester sang with the Tufts chorus during a music/spring break concert tour to Boston and NY.</p>

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<p>cltdad-- thanks! I wish I had the ECs and self esteem to apply to Harvard. </p>

<p>swimchris-- How difficult is it to get into the NEC program at Northeastern? Does it have the same sort of rigorous competition that plain ole NEC has? I don’t know if cross-registration is “enough music” for me, but I’ll definitely look into it! Thanks!</p>

<p>bonanza-- I actually did look at Brandeis but forgot to mention it in my post! As bad as it sounds…it just sounds too Jewish (coming from a very reform Jew) and from what I’ve read, it seems very upper-class white New Englander, and I’d rather go somewhere that doesn’t sound exactly like my high school. I’m willing to be proven wrong. Thanks!</p>

<p>momrath-- I would be open to either (leaning slightly towards Williams for who knows why) but I could only visit one or the other, since this is a “Boston-central” trip. I also don’t want to get ahead of myself…the self-doubting part of myself (which is gigantic) doesn’t want to visit TOO many selective schools because I’d rather not see somewhere that I have no chance of getting in. Williams is also harder to get to. The only way there is a 3-hour drive, and we’d have to rent a car. My mother isn’t a fan of this but if there’s enough reason I can possibly persuade her. Wesleyan is easier to get to (Amtrak goes to New Haven, which is pretty close by). Thanks!</p>

<p>bookmama-- The financial situation is very important to my college selection, which is why I don’t want to see only super-selective schools, where I’d be a small fish in a big pond (and who wants to give a small fish scholarships?). I’m feeling this way towards BU because of how its campus is set up. I wouldn’t mind being close to a big city, but BU seems to BE the big city–I’d rather have more of an enclosed community feeling where people are happy to be and aren’t desperate to flock to the city for fun. Tufts seems interesting, again it’s a bit of a reach school, but I’m pretty sure it’s on my to-visit list. Thanks!</p>

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<p>alto, you are right in the importance of having matches and safeties on your list. You have a chance at any of the selective schools (including Harvard) but since there’s no guarantee, you should always have a balanced list.</p>

<p>All small LACs, even the most selective, appreciate it when you visit them as it demonstrates serious interest. It isn’t essential but it helps.</p>

<p>You should also use the visit as an opportunity to see the music facilities and ideally meet with a music professor. Plus you should interview at the schools that encourage interviews. (Wesleyan does, Williams doesn’t.)</p>

<p>The main reason that I’d suggest that you try to get to Williams would be to see how you feel about its location in an insular mountain valley. For my son that was a strong positive, but it’s not for everyone. </p>

<p>Renting a car and driving is the best way to get there, but I believe you can take a Peter Pan bus from Boston to Williamstown. If you drive you should try to see Smith as well. Very good music department, very good academics aid, very good financial and because it’s all womens it’s less selective. </p>

<p>If I recall correctly driving from Middletown (Wesleyan) to Williamstown is also about 3 hours, so you could make a loop from Boston: Wesleyan, Williams, Smith, Wellesley. Add Brown, Yale, Conn College (if you’re interested).</p>

<p>My son was involved in art not music (though many of his friends were serious musicians), and he found that Williams was very supportive of the arts across the board. They like energetic, multi-faceted kids. His second choice was Wesleyan, even though the environment and personality are quite different from Williams.</p>

<p>Do you qualify for need based financial aid? If yes, I would expect your package to about the same at all of the selective schools. Smith is a special case because they offer merit aid as well. If you don’t qualify for need based aid, then you’re going to have to re-think your list.</p>

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<p>thanks for the advice about the loop–I’ll definitely look into that.</p>

<p>I’m not sure about need-based aid. I definitely NEED aid (little college savings) but my parents are pretty middle class–the issue I’ve had in the past with music camps (Interlochen) is that I’m too poor to just pay for the thing, but not poor enough to receive aid, so I’m very worried the same will happen with college.</p>

<p>Do you know if there’s a particular threshold for need-based aid? Aren’t some schools need-blind? I really ought to know more about this.</p>

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<p>alto, ask your parents to use an on-line calculator to determine how much NEED based aid you would be eligible for. Most colleges have them on their websites. This will give you an idea of your family’s expected contribution. The result is not fool proof, but it’s fairly consistent among selective colleges. If the EFC works for your family, then proceed with your list. If it doesn’t then you will have to find schools that offer MERIT aid, in addition to need based aid.</p>

<p>Do this right away! Many of the schools you are interested in do not offer merit aid, period, no matter how smart and talented you are. They are, however, generous with need based aid. </p>

<p>There are several threads on this board that list good merit aid schools. There are some very good academically rated merit schools, but they tend to be located in the midwest or south or are womens schools like Smith.</p>

<p>Being need blind is a different issue. That just means that they will admit you on your merits and will not (allegedly) consider your financial situation as a factor. Once you’re admitted they will give you a financial aid package. Some schools guarantee that they will cover your needs, but, remember, it’s what they think you need, not what you think you need. That’s why you have to use a calculator in advance to get an idea what to expect.</p>

<p>Being middle class doesn’t prevent you from receiving need based aid, but you have to know the facts before you start visiting.</p>

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<p>Your description of Brandeis is highly inaccurate. It is multicultural school and fits your criteria both academically and in terms of location-very easy to get into Boston and to Cambridge which is plus but also has a self-contained campus with much going on so no need to feel you have to go to Boston or Cambridge for fun. My younger d who was accepted to BU for music chose not to go there because of the lack of the campus and the lack of merit $ as compared to other schools she was accepted at. If it had been enough of a first choice, we would have stretched to make it work.</p>

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<p>I agree with all of the schools mentioned - in fact we have visited and heard music groups at most of them. </p>

<p>Your next trip needs to be the upstate eastern New York trip. Vassar has excellent music and fits your criteria. Up the road is Bard who has a conservatory but also a BA music major separate from the conservatory. Skidmore has a great arts atmosphere. Next, swing over to Hamilton which surprised us with the high level of music there.</p>

<p>Between S1 and S2 , we have been ‘almost everywhere’. If you look up my previous posts, I have described most of these schools. Feel free to ask me any questions.</p>

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<p>I agree with Bookmama. While I don’t want to sound like a shrill for Brandeis (because I’m not), Altoali’s concern, based on what she heard or read about Brandeis being “too Jewish,” could be posted on the “Worst reasons to not consider a school” thread. Don’t misunderstand, I recognize that some people might find Brandeis to be “too Jewish.” Its just that many of the other schools mentioned, such as BU and Harvard–have larger Jewish populations than than does Brandeis and the number of Jews at Tufts is probably comparable–but somehow they are not perceived as being “too Jewish” while Brandeis is.</p>

<p>Contrary to the popular misconception, Brandeis is not a “Jewish” university. Rather, it is a non-sectarian university which happen to be founded by members of the Jewish community to enable people of all faiths, races, and backgrounds to have access to a superior education without quotas (which were common in 1948 when Brandeis was founded). In contrast, BU was founded as a Methodist institution and Harvard was founded to train Puritan ministers. Over time, those later institutions became non-sectarian as well. Today, BU, Tufts and Harvard each has a significant Jewish student population.</p>

<p>While the percentage of students at Brandeis who self-identify as Jews is slightly higher than at those other Boston area schools, the difference is not significant. And the level of affiliation of those Jews is very diverse, running from ultra orthodox (very few) to ultra secular (many more). Since over half the undergraduate population is not Jewish (and about 60% of the student population if you add in graduate students), the cultural difference between Brandeis, BU and Tufts is much less than many think. The main difference is that, because of its largely Jewish financial support, the Brandeis academic calendar recognizes Jewish holidays in ways that those other schools don’t. For example, spring break at Brandeis always coincides with Passover.</p>

<p>The OP’s other expressed concern was that Brandeis had too many “upper middle-class white New Englanders.” Actually, if you stretched that description to Northeasterners from New Englanders, it would be somewhat accurate. Of course, the same can be said of every other school you are looking at. In fact, percentage of upper middle class whites at Wellsley and Williams has to dwarf the numbers at Brandeis. That said, you will find that the student population at Brandeis is rather more diverse than you might think. While it certainly does not mirror the demographics of America as a whole (no school does), there is a sizable Asian community and persons of color are not rare.</p>

<p>So, to summarize, Brandeis sounds like a perfect fit for your academic and musical interests and I believe that your concerns about its culture are misinformed. I suggest you visit and come to your own conclusions.</p>

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<p>Brandeis is so close to Tufts and Wellesley that you should see it for sure. The music department is small and friendly but strong. We heard the jazz band and it was a fun group. We know two people (non -Jewish) who attend Brandeis and are enjoying the experience. They have built three buildings in the center of campus for religious worship and those are arranged so the none casts a shadow on the others. I think that illustrates the religious philosophy at Brandeis.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the info on Brandeis! I knew very little about the school, thanks for clearing things up. I just had the “financial aid” talk with my parents, and we would qualify for very little need-based aid. However, I need a huge scholarship to go anywhere, so I need merit-based aid. Any suggestions in the Boston area (or in general)? Is UMass Amherst a good one to look at?</p>

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<p>Brandeis used to be very generous with merit aid but it’s new president has put much more emphasis on need based need. There is still some merit money available, but not nearly as much.</p>

<p>I don’t know about merit aid at Umass. Most state flagships don’t have a lot of merit aid for out of staters. They admit out of staters because they pay much more in tuition.</p>

<p>Most top schools have very limited (if any) merit aid. Merit aid is mostly used by somewhat lesser schools who use it to attract better students they otherwise wouldn’t get. You might want to look at LAC’s below the top 20 or so. They often offer nice packages to top students.</p>

<p>In addition to need based and merit aid, look into other options like restricted scholarships. For example, my daughter got a full ride to Harvard because they have a scholarship for students with high school diplomas from our hometown. These take some research to find but are well worth the effort. Also, ROTC offers a lot of money if you are willing to give some time to the military.</p>

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<p>alto, if you are female look at Smith. Maybe start a new thread asking about Music + Merit and see what suggestions show up. Post on the Music board as well.</p>

<p>For merit aid in the Northeast (aside from Smith) you may have to drop down a notch in ratings, but if you look in the Midwest and South you will find several academically solid schools that will offer the aid you need.</p>

<p>I don’t know anything about their music programs but for good merit and excellent academics look at Grinnell, Macalester, Carleton, Rhodes.</p>

<p>As bonanza said, some selective colleges offer scholarships with very specific criteria – such as where live, your demographic or what talents you can bring to the campus. You have to do some combing through financial aid pages to find them.</p>

<p>PS, Did your parents actually use a financial aid calculator or just make an assumption based on your family’s income? They should use a calculator; you may be surprised.</p>

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<p>

Brandeis 50%</p>

<p>Harvard 25%
Tufts 25%
Boston U 19%</p>

<p>Emerson 12%
Simmons 10%
Wellesley 10%
MIT 9%
Northeastern 7%
Suffolk 3%</p>

<p>Not sure I’d call that “slightly” higher. That’s in line with Georgetown (50% Catholic) but better than BC and Notre Dame (70% and 80% Catholic, respectively).</p>

<p>Few colleges exceed the 25% mark – Emory, Tulane, Oberlin, and GWU are outliers at about 30%.</p>

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<p>Bonanza–thanks, I will look into restricted scholarships! There are so many financial aid options to figure out, thanks for the heads up about another one!</p>

<p>momrath-- I don’t care as much about the rankings as much as a good quality education and music program that I can afford. We used a financial aid calculator for Wellesley and Tufts and that leaves my family somehow paying $30,000 a year, which is entirely impossible.</p>

<p>warblers-- thanks for the stats! The religious population of a school isn’t super important to me, the only reason I mentioned the thing about Brandeis is because I’m afraid to go to a school with a student body consisting of the same type of people…I know that’s never going to actually happen on any given campus, but you catch my drift.</p>