I take those platforms with a grain of salt - many who are motivated to review are doing so bc they are disgruntled over something very specific to themselves. Those that are happy don’t tend to write reviews. However, the data on how often people are drinking might have more than a grain of truth - at least a single data point to tuck away.
1 Like
My DD will be attending Marist. She wants to be involved & attend some parties but it’s not her main interest. I think you find people like you wherever you go. Marist is a dry campus. I’m sure there are off campus parties. Greek life is small.
It felt like a good fit for her studies & is a beautiful campus.
1 Like
I agree.
Unigo seems more accurate then Niche since the surveys ask a specific question.
Experiences differ. For example: An athlete who does not join a fraternity/sorority will have a different experience than a non-athlete as well as from Greek society members. This is why I value Fiske Guide & Unigo & other sources which do not evaluate a school or its social life based on a single student’s experience.
All of these resources are just sources to consider in searching for the best fit for a particular student.
P.S. Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 gives just 15 out of about 350 colleges & universities a rating of 5 (party school). Three (3) of the Fifteen (15) schools are LACs: (Ithaca College is a Regional University)
Denison University
Ithaca College
Lafayette College
Ohio Wesleyan
When such a rating is supported by one or more well recognized sources, it deserves consideration.
1 Like
You’ve gotten some great info here. Another option is for your kid to ask on the reddit pages for the schools they are interested in. My D goes to a school (not on your list) that definitely has parties but there is no pressure to drink, respect for those who don’t, and other things to do besides drink. If you asked the kids at the school that would probably all say that.
3 Likes
That is an amazingly high number of Pell Grant students! It must mean that students do feel comfortable at Susquehanna. No wonder the atmosphere is different than at other schools - the students do not have an entitled attitude. I have heard very good things about Susquehanna. It seems to be a school that is doing all the right things and moving up. I may look at it in a couple of years for second son.
3 Likes
34% is actually an average percentage of students with Pell grants, based on colleges generally in the US.
https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/TrendGenerator/app/answer/8/35
However, it may seem high compared to the colleges more commonly focused on in these forums.
Yes, it is high compared to the other popular colleges mentioned here, which is quite unfortunate. Many of the “top” colleges normalise very elite behavior, perhaps contributing to a somewhat warped perception of reality.
2 Likes
What do you mean by elite behavior?
Also, be aware that it really needs to be your daughter checking out these schools, far more than you.
1 Like
My D is at Susquehanna now (transferred in last year). She says most of the partying is in bars off campus. She says it’s not a big party school, and it’s easy to avoid them. Seems like most of the students are nice, down to earth kids. As with many LACs, she has close relationships with her professors, a bonus now as she’s applying for summer research positions. Feedback on her professors has been very positive. Career center seems strong, and we’ve heard from several grads that they go above and beyond to help students and grads with networking and placement.
6 Likes
By “elite behavior,” I mean a preponderance of elite or expensive behaviors and attitudes that predominate at a school.
When I was a Pell Grant student at a Top 30 school, I worked hard to hide my working class background so that I would fit in with others. Still, there were constant reminders of the attitudes of what was seemingly the majority of students.
For example, I silently listened as one friend said that our University should not award so much financial aid because “community colleges and state colleges are for those people. An elite, private University is not a right; it’s meant to be a reward for those who have earned it and can pay.”
Other examples include being the only one in my social group not to fly off somewhere for spring break because I could not afford it or because I had to work; not participating in common activities like going out to dinner in town, going skiing or to the movies, etc.
Certain brands were de rigueur and conversations about shopping, second homes, luxury getaways, etc were the norm and left me feeling ill at ease.
In many ways, my first years in college felt like “finishing school.” And many of those differences still exist, 35 years later. For example, one friend was mystified that I did not just send my son to his first choice school, where he was accepted. I finally had to point out that the expenses would be too much for us, at over $300k for four years, particularly when considering we have another child behind the first one.
In more recent, simpler terms, one school’s snow photos show lines of kids snowboarding and skiing around campus. Another shows kids riding trays and plastic sleds down a hillside. Those photos say a lot about the differences at the two schools.
Does that make sense now?
9 Likes
Thank you - yes - I know she needs to do research on her own - But she is researching from a different perspective - Im just trying to help her as she has trouble processing this much information. She has her own opinions of which schools she likes - Mostly Im just following up with checks on quality, covid, financial and then this concern about student body - which, if she could spend time in classrooms or overnight visits, she could figure it out for herself, but she can’t.
1 Like
Got it.
Understand that there will be rich kids at most private colleges. I am generalizing (and no doubt someone will refute this), but the more diverse a college is, and the fewer students it has from prep schools, the less “elite” the student body will feel.
2 Likes
When many “top 30” private colleges have half of their students attending without financial aid (i.e. probably over $200k parent income and willingness to pay $80k per year for college) and less than a fifth from the lower half of the parent income range (Pell grant recipients), is it that surprising that upper and upper-edge-of-upper-middle class habits predominate?
Of course not. But it generally is a culture shock to the lower income students. This is why a place like Susquehanna may feel more relatable or down to earth than an institution with 10% or fewer Pell Grant students.
3 Likes
That culture shock is also likely less pronounced at schools where students are more focused on academics.
There are only a small handful of 4-year colleges in the United States with <= 10% Pell Grant students, which do not include any of the colleges listed by the original poster. The few <= 10% Pell colleges tend to have unique characteristics that attract a particular subgroup of students, such as religious schools or highly selective + need aware.
While Susquehanna probably has a higher Pell Grant % than typical high sticker tuition, somewhat selective, private LACs; typical publics have larger % Pell Grants than S… particularly not super selective ones. Among the colleges listed by the OP, Susquehanna is not as extreme an outlier as some posts may imply. Some example stats from IPEDS are below. Yes, Susquehanna has a higher Pell %, but it’s not as stark as >30% at S vs <10% elsewhere.
Susquehanna – 31% Pell
Washington College – 28% Pell
St. Lawrence – 23% Pell
I don’t know enough about Susquehanna to know why the Pell grant % is higher. Most of the students being in state, with a good potion from Philadelphia probably plays a role. Being relatively less selective with a 72% admit rate and optional testing (prior to COVID) probably also plays a role.
Though colleges use “diversity” in different ways. Many colleges are diverse racially but not income-wise, and their racial diversity is mostly due to having a large proportion of kids from wealthy Asian-American families, who also attended prep schools.
2 Likes
That’s only true at some top LACs but not elite colleges generally. I do agree with your point though that racial diversity doesn’t imply diversity in SES. Neither does geographic diversity. Adding a few rich kids from each racial group or georgraphic region don’t really increase diversity income-wise.
2 Likes
It depends on the college. In general, LACs have fewer Asian students that “national” colleges of comparable selectivity. Some not especially selective LACs treat Asian students as a URM group. Specific numbers from numbers 1-5 on USNWR are below. All numbers are from IPEDS. Note that the LACs as a whole had fewer Asian students than “National” schools, and slightly more URMs (not including Asian as URM). In the median totals for both types of schools traditional URMs outnumbered Asian students. I am aware than number 4 and 5 are tied on USNWR. The forum SW renumbers to remove ties.
“National” Universities
- Princeton – 22% Asian, 18% URM, 12% International, 21% Pell
- Harvard – 18% Asian, 20% URM, 12% International, 18% Pell
- Columbia – 17% Asian, 21% URM, 18% International, 18% Pell
- MIT – 30% Asian, 21% URM, 10% International, 19% Pell
- Yale – 20% Asian, 22% URM, 10% International, 20% Pell
====================================================
Median – 20% Asian, 21% URM, 12% International, 19% Pell
LACs
- Williams – 12% Asian, 20% URM, 9% International, 20% Pell
- Amherst – 15% Asian, 23% URM, 9% International, 30% Pell
- Swarthmore – 16% Asian, 23% URM, 14% International, 22% Pell
- Pomona – 16% Asian, 27% URM, 12% International, 20% Pell
- Wellesley – 22% Asian, 18% URM, 13% International, 23% Pell
====================================================
Median – 16% Asian, 23% URM, 12% International, 22% Pell
,
Some of the more extreme outlier individual highly selective colleges include:
Lower Diversity
Webb – 8% Asian, 4% URM, 0% International, 4% Pell*
Bates – 5% Asian, 14% URM, 8% International, 9% Pell
Notre Dame – 5% Asian, 15% URM, 7% International, 10% Pell
*Webb gives all domestic students a 100% tuition scholarship, which may contribute to the low Pell %.
Higher Diversity
UCLA – 28% Asian, 25% URM, 11% International, 26% Pell
UCB – 36% Asian, 18% URM, 13% International, 23% Pell
NYU – 18% Asian, 26% URM, 22% International, 20% Pell
4 Likes
Just wondering if you have been able to get any more info about Susquehanna, Washington College and Ithaca College. My daughter has been accepted to all of those and sounds just like your daughter. She is shy and quiet and not interested in parties. She’s also interested in film and writing. We did a virtual session with Washington and she really liked it so we went to visit this past week and while she’s not crossing it off her list, she’s not feeling as excited about it anymore. Any new info you have would be great as it seems like our daughters are looking for similar schools! Thanks.