"Colleges go beyond GPA to cull applicants": The Art of Holistic Admissions

Parent Cafe
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<p>
[quote]
Quote:
By zip code, my kids would be thought low income living in the midst of urban blight, and that the school for that zip code must be completely noncompetitive. </p>

<p>I know what you meant, but this does come off sounding really bad.

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</p>

<p>I didn't mean to be insulting towards those who do live in bad neighborhoods, just wanted to make the point that the schools wishing to cast a wider net need to look at more than zip codes when analyzing schools they're not so familiar with. If Oberlin rejected an application out of hand because of the assumption that the applicant's high school wasn't up to their standards, they're losing out on a kid who might really serve to broaden perspectives. Or in the case of my neighborhood, on middle to upper middle class urban kids who have to overcome assumptions that their schools are less capable of college preparation that the old stand-by suburban schools and prep schools.</p>

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<p>MomofFour: if you kid's board scores are good, coming from a low-income school might actually give your kid a boost. You know, a student who has overcome adversity and achieved in spite of low-achieving school? Schools LOVE diversity - and your kid's school would signify economic diversity. Just a thought....</p>

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<p>anxiousmom, I certainly agree and would think that many adcoms would also take a closer look at different high schools and student background since that is supposed to be one of the hallmarks of holistic admissions. Yet, known feeder schools undoubtedly make it easier for adcoms to assess the value and rigor of the courses and the grades since it does appear that time and again GPA and standardized test scores come first in the evaluation process. I wonder if Oberlin will take a more flexible view of high school zip code zoning, as the college attempts to become better known and to cast its net wider to attract a larger applicant pool:</p>

<p>"Fearless Campaign Dissected : Edwards Designs View Book for Admissions"</p>

<p>"A striking new change in the College’s admissions marketing campaign has invoked a student dialogue throughout campus. As a part of the Strategic Plan, the shift adopts the bold word “fearless,” replacing the previous catchphrase, “Think one person can change the world? So do we.”</p>

<p>Across campus, students are “fearful” that this development will alter the liberal landscape, innovative thought and creative spirit that defines Oberlin by attracting a different type of student who may not be as individualistic to think that one person can change the world.</p>

<p>“We can understand the attachment,” said Dean of College Admissions Debra Chermonte. “We were very attached to it, and we still are…This [new motto] doesn’t mean that we don’t embrace that [previous] philosophy.” </p>

<p>“Fearless” is the creation of marketing consultant Mark Edwards, managing partner of the Boston-area firm Edwards & Company. While the Review has covered the change, this article will look at the goals of the Office of Admissions motivating the new campaign and the results of the work Edwards has done at various other institutions comparable to Oberlin in size and scope.</p>

<p>In his Sept. visit to campus, Edwards said, “What happens too frequently is that Oberlin gets skipped over…one of the challenges is making the place more well-known.”</p>

<p>According to Edwards, making the institution more well known lies in an effective marketing approach that can compete at the same level with hundreds of other schools. He redesigned the College’s student recruitment materials: the new view book features a black-on-black cover with bright colors inside, a strong statement made in order to attract the attention of prospective students who are browsing through stacks of brochures.</p>

<p>While some students expressed concern over the general appearance of the College’s new view book – that it was perhaps too strong of a statement – Edwards brought an important point to light: These materials are meant for a younger audience.</p>

<p>“The view book is targeted at 17-year-olds,” he said.</p>

<p>Along with the full-length view book, the Office of Admissions has also started to distribute what it calls a “travel piece.” With similar design elements, this brochure folds out to reveal important facts and figures about Oberlin that prospective students would find relevant. </p>

<p>The view book is meant “to begin a conversation and a relationship…[it’s] not meant to tell everything there is to tell about Oberlin,” according to Chermonte.</p>

<p>“It’s trying to offer [prospective students] something that will make them interested in Oberlin,” said Vice President for College Relations Al Moran.</p>

<p>What the Office of Admissions has recently found is that students looking at various colleges today often depend heavily on the Internet as a resource. </p>

<p>“All the pieces that we’re producing…[are] designed to have people come to the web,” said Moran of the site, oberlin.edu/fearless.</p>

<p>Miami-based agency Dotmarketing, Inc., which specializes in web-based solutions, is implementing the first part of a three-phase plan in strengthening the College’s website. Known as the discovery phase, the purpose is to evaluate the current website and to conduct research concerning what prospective students and parents look for; this should be completed by mid-December.</p>

<p>After collecting this information, Dotmarketing, Inc. will combine their results with the research that Edwards has done, brainstorming recommendations to improve the website near the end of January. Phase three, which Moran predicts will take approximately a year, will be to make all those changes and launch an entirely new website.</p>

<p>Before “Think one person can change the world? So do we,” there was “A place to thrive.” Oberlin’s most recent student recruitment materials had been in place for eight admissions cycles, already “twice the average life span,” since typically, colleges would revamp their images after four or five years, according to Chermonte. After almost a decade, a change was needed to put Oberlin on competitive footing with other schools in the market.</p>

<p>According to the Office, the idea of one person changing the world is no longer innovative, as a number of other schools have adopted similar catchphrases.</p>

<p>“There were so many takes on that message…it just wasn’t unique [anymore],” said Senior Associate Director of Admissions Leslie A. Braat.</p>

<p>Right now, the College is in its prime recruiting season. The admissions staff has traveled across the country and around the world with the new Edwards-approved brochures.</p>

<p>Braat has been to college fairs and given a number of presentations, where other admissions representatives have praised Oberlin’s bold new endeavor, and students have been reeled in by the glossy publication...</p>

<p>Edwards Finds Success at Other Schools</p>

<p>Last Sept., Edwards mused about what “prestige” meant. He felt it was best explained by a student who once told him that it was “the look on your friend’s face when you tell them where you’re going [to a certain college].”</p>

<p>Fifteen years ago, Oberlin was ranked as 14th among liberal arts colleges nationwide in the 1991 edition of U.S. News and World Report’s America’s Best Colleges; the most recent 2007 edition places the College at 22nd.</p>

<p>In 1991, Grinnell was ranked two below Oberlin, but has now settled ahead by eight notches. Harvey Mudd, under the Claremont Colleges umbrella with Claremont McKenna, Pitzer, Pomona and Scripps Colleges, was not even included in the 1991 rankings, however, the school now places at 14th. </p>

<p>If, in fact, one of the College’s goals is to climb the numbers for a higher ranking, therefore earning greater prestige, then implementing an effective marketing strategy is key.</p>

<p>The Edwards and Co. website says, “If you are interested in affecting real and positive change for your institution, we encourage you to contact us.” As “agents of change,” Edwards’ firm has also worked with an impressive list of schools including peer institutions Hobart and William Smith, Macalester, Grinnell and Carleton Colleges, Wesleyan and Harvard Universities, as well as Massachusetts Institute of Technology...</p>

<p>However, it seems that the research Edwards conducts at every college results in very similar results: the given school, while excellent in academics, the arts and student life, is not as well-known as it should be. In addition, all these schools mentioned above have similar goals of attracting a larger pool of prospective students, standing out among other liberal arts colleges, becoming more of a “household name” and moving aggressively onto the Internet.</p>

<p>In addition, the materials that Edwards revises for each institution show strong similarities in design. While this may be in part attributed to a personal design philosophy, Edwards seems to have found a fail-proof marketing strategy that can be tweaked for every school. At Skidmore, in the first year alone, website hits tripled and at HWS and Wesleyan, admissions statistics have improved significantly.</p>

<p>But maybe a marketing consultant who throws around numbers and compiles statistics can still understand the Oberlin experience.</p>

<p>“I don’t think there’s another school like Oberlin anywhere. I think it’s a very unique and distinctive place,” said Edwards."</p>

<p>“Oberlin is not going away and a marketing campaign or a new president or a new board of trustees will not change who and what we are,” said Moran."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.oberlin.edu/stupub/ocreview/2006/11/17/features/Fearless_Campaign_Dissecte.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oberlin.edu/stupub/ocreview/2006/11/17/features/Fearless_Campaign_Dissecte.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Article on holistic admissions and the UC app. in the LATimes: "Essay question: What will win me college entry?" in which the adcoms at UC admit they now read the essays - "at least twice".</p>

<p>"Patrick Chung, 17, has given himself three hours to find himself, define himself, distinguish himself; and like hundreds of thousands of students nationwide, he's wondering if the whole torturous process makes a lick of sense.</p>

<p>It's 9 p.m. on Nov. 29, and University of California freshman applications are due in 27 hours. But every high school senior knows that the computer system bogs down as last-minute filers log on. So Patrick is determined to crank out the last of the three required personal essays and hit "submit" before midnight.</p>

<p>"As his mother paces quietly in the living room of the family's Highland Park home, the Franklin High School senior stares at the bulky beige monitor in his bedroom, trying to ignore the IMs popping up from stressed-out friends at Glendale High, Eagle Rock High, Crescenta Valley High.</p>

<p>Patrick runs his fingers through his thick black hair. For a long time his fingerless gloves hover over the keyboard. Then they begin to fly: "During the winter vacation of my freshman year," he types, "I attended the local homeless shelter…. "</p>

<p>Fingers stop. The computer fan purrs. The swivel chair squeaks. Chung emits strange little noises.</p>

<p>I can't tap into his brainwaves, but I know what's there. It's the season when a cacophony of life stories, distorted by ambition and angst, crescendos in the mind of every college hopeful. UC's "personal statements," with their vague writing prompts, can be particularly frustrating, students say.</p>

<p>At San Marino High School, most of the 31 seniors in an honors English class can recite by memory private universities' prompts.</p>

<p>The class whoops when a student mentions one used by the University of Pennsylvania: "You have just completed your 300-page autobiography. Please submit page 217."</p>

<p>Other schools use clever references to great paintings, Isaac Newton and "Rashomon" to stir student creativity.</p>

<p>The UC system offers three bland nudges, including: "How have you taken advantage of the educational opportunities you have had to prepare for college?"</p>

<p>"They seem a lot less personal than the private schools," a San Marino student says.</p>

<p>The prompts, a UC spokesperson confirms, were written by committee.</p>

<p>In 2001, folks in the UC system admitted to this newspaper that they did not read the essays. They do now, they say. At least twice.</p>

<p>At UC Berkeley, for example, 100 or so full- and part-time staffers go over the applications. Each essay is read by two people who grade it from 1 to 5, and if there's too much discrepancy between their grades, a third reader takes a look.</p>

<p>Last year, about 84,000 high school seniors applied to the UC system, and although all eligible candidates received slots somewhere, the competition for coveted schools, including Berkeley and UCLA, is always tough.</p>

<p>So despite their skepticism, students drive themselves nuts fretting about how to get an edge, then reel under the complexity of ethical issues that the essay process sets roiling.</p>

<p>It's hard to buy a university spokesman's contention, for instance, that readers are expected to remain colorblind as they pore over the essays. The instructions for that first UC prompt, after all, specifically encourage applicants to note if they've participated in minority-oriented academic development programs.</p>

<p>Given society's inherent inequities and ways to game the system — a college counseling industry thrives, and the Internet is clogged with online editing and writing services — there are enough variables to short-circuit the university's best efforts at fairness. Still, college counselors say that all too often a formulaic sameness sets in, as students grasp at conventional wisdom — such as the notion a few years back that admissions officers are suckers for uplifting sob stories...</p>

<p>People want to be seen as individuals, and that only gets harder as kids are fed the paradoxical truism that to stand out in society, they must begin scrambling while in preschool to build the narrowly defined resume that will qualify them to jump through subsequent sets of academic hoops.</p>

<p>Sure, these students had to contort their words to fit bland prompts. And few extricated themselves from the desperate need to pose and please. But listen to snippets of these painstakingly crafted songs of self, and you can't help but wish you were seated beside one of these kids in a UC classroom."</p>

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<p>
[quote]
At the presentation I attended for Stanford, the young Admission Officer made it crystal clear (he repeated it three times) that they looked for grades, class rank, and course load.

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<p>That may be their line, but it is absolutely not who they have accepted from our school in the last two years. Legacy status, URM status and political connections trumps grades. While I have no objection to these factors being considered it aggravates me that Stanford rejected our Intel winners, and all of the top half of the students who applied. (Judging from grades and SAT scores.)</p>

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<p>Any article which places you inside the adcoms' room is very helpful for students and families of prospective applicants. And of course the arbitrariness of some of the admission decisions cited should make it clear that significant time should be spent finding a safety or two which the student would be happy attending.</p>

<p>Hey, our son chose 7, including Oberlin!!! And that was all of the colleges he applied to.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

Rick Tyler wrote: At the presentation I attended for Stanford, the young Admission Officer made it crystal clear (he repeated it three times) that they looked for grades, class rank, and course load.
math mom responded: That may be their line, but it is absolutely not who they have accepted from our school in the last two years. Legacy status, URM status and political connections trumps grades.

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</p>

<p>Heh. I'm guessing the Stanford rep doesn't want to come out and admit that half the incoming class slots are reserved for movie stars, children of the very very wealthy, URMs, and athletes, other than football, obviously. Doesn't seem like there's too much room for "holistic admissions" does there?</p>

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<p>That is why picking a school that is aggressive about competitive school admissions is so important, if you want your kid to have the best chance of getting in. Even doing so there is that great unknown as to the personal part of your child. THere are kids that shine and would do better in a noncompetitive highschool. THere are those who are the opposite. The advantage of dealing with a high school that has an established excellent track record in getting kids into top school is the precedent, the relationship that exists between colleges and the guidance dept and the training of the teachers and gcs on how to write an effective recommendation for their kids. Our highschool takes these recs very, very seriously, and helps kids find their matches. It is a big deal thing for the teachers too. When I read about some of these public highschool kids that get a short nothing rec, it makes me cringe. ( Yet, there is a group of kids that can benefit from that too. Less said, more generic,much better for some kids with high stats, but not much can be said that is helpful. Coming from a highschool that has a rep of not giving informative recs would help such a kid.)<br>
The other very important thing that a highschool provides colleges is their profile. It is shocking how many highschools are using the same old outdated rag to date, or have a poor showing on their own profile. If you want to get your kid into a top college, you need to look at those things, and it is very helpful to have a school that is constantly reviewing its college process. Even the transcript can be college friendly or hostile for the student. All of the schools I know send an edited version of the transcript to the colleges. It is sanitized of any extraneous info which gives more kids a shot of getting in. Class rank is another thing. Yeah, it helps #1 -5 if their other stuff is in good shape, but #15 who might trump the others in everything else gets an automatic "ding" with that class rank. Our highschool, and other very competive (defined by % of kids going to highly selective colleges) do not do class rank. And the top quintile, maybe 25% get into schools that say right out that they only like to take the top 5 kids from schools. Also these schools are loaded with opportunities for the kids to do things that the top colleges love. They have infor on summer programs that enhance kids' chances, they offer Olympiad type tests, the attention getting science fairs, the Intel courses; stuff that makes it easier for the kid to have this eyecatching awards on their resume. That is the difference I found between schools here in the competitve NY college belt and a school that was considered pretty good in the Midwest. How the heck can you compete against a school that starts kids with science projects as a freshman in preparation for the intell? And we are not talking about an isolated kid or two, but a whole bunch of them. There is a book called "What It takes to Get into an Ivy League School" that has a list of activities and awards that top colleges like to see and count heavily when they see them as part of the kids' ECs. If your school does not help kids in getting these awards and activities and levels of accomplishment, you are fighting an upstream battle, even if you are in a top school district. School districts are not rated heavily if at all on how many kids they get into select colleges, since that is a small portion of their job. You need to take that part of the highschool under a microscope if it a focus of yours, and if the school is not big on these things, you either put the kid in a school that is, or cover those areas yourself.</p>

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<p>MomOfFour -- I actually didn't read the zip code section in the same way you did. As I interpreted it, she was able to pinpoint a particular school BASED on its zip code and the rest of the staff happened to be unfamiliar with said school. Don't know which way it went, but that's my own, hopefully less worrisome interpretation.</p>

<p>That said, adcoms often have access to plenty of other info about a high school...what your child has taken relative to what the school offers, sometimes median GPA, your child's rank, occasionally the school's local/national ranking, and so forth. Admissions officers shouldn't be too confused, and even if they are, as a previous poster mentioned, it doesn't have to work out against you. I wouldn't let it be a major concern.</p>

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<p>I think Stanford looks at SATs very, very carefully. They wouldn't have those test scores if they did not.</p>

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<p>ouch. that's not good for me. That is probably true...</p>

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<p>And if one believes this there is that large bridge for sale out east...</p>

<p>From the Stanford University Admissions web page:

[quote]
One thing we are trying to do is debunk the myth that a curriculum loaded to the brim with Advanced Placement courses upon Advanced Placement courses—with no regard to a student’s happiness or personal interests—is a prerequisite for admission to Stanford. Such a course load is not required, nor is it healthy.</p>

<p>We are not saying that students should stop challenging themselves. Of course we want students to challenge themselves when appropriate, but we don’t want them to hurt themselves physically or mentally along the way.</p>

<p>The students who will thrive at Stanford are those who are genuinely excited about learning, not necessarily those who take every single AP or Honors or Accelerated class just because its name has that distinction. Our hope is that students will be able to spend more time discovering their passions instead of stressing out about the college admission process, how many AP tests they are taking, or what extracurricular activities may appear most impressive.

[/quote]
<a href="http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_6_counselors.html#stress%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_6_counselors.html#stress&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>idad,
Do you question Dean Shaw's sincerity?</p>

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<p>idad -- I think that there ARE valid points made in that excerpt. By and large, anyone who's even thinking of applying to Stanford KNOWS that she had better be an intelligent, driven, and hard-working individual. Beyond that, I've been told for years that Stanford really does take a unique approach to applications, weighing "hooks" very highly. This isn't to say that I don't know absolutely stellar students who were admitted, but it is to say that I know plenty of equally stellar students were not, as well as some strangely <em>not</em> stellar students who were. I don't know exactly what they're looking for, and to say that numbers aren't a big part of things would be ignorant, but in Stanford's case--more so than most would think--I think it would also be a mistake to say that they're EVERYthing.</p>

<p>Also, I do think it's important to encourage students to take what interests them more than to just pile on AP after AP, and that does NOT amount to telling students not to challenge themselves. At my high school, the girl who took an absolutely obscene courseload and is now at Princeton actually watered down her GPA by taking many, many academic electives that were unweighted (4 languages, none of which were weighted until the 3-4 levels). Some students refused to expand their horizons like this because they didn't want to "water down" their weighted GPAs. Similarly, some students refrained from taking college courses offered on campus because they weren't factored into GPA. </p>

<p>I interpret Dean Shaw's message in that light. CLEARLY, prospective students should be motivated, driven, passionate, intelligent, open to challenge, and so forth, but NOT to the extent that they actually end up stunting their experiences just to boost numbers or whatever else. I think it's easy to read his statement and react negatively, as many posters here have, but I see that as a misreading. He's not directing his words to an entirely random audience.</p>

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<p>My point was, does anyone think that high school students actually believe this. Where is their evidence? It would be interesting to see if the admitted student group actually takes fewer AP's than does the rejected group. If so, that might begin to take the pressure off. </p>

<p>The point on which this turns is "...—with no regard to a student’s happiness or personal interests—is a prerequisite for admission to Stanford..." This is a message to counselors, to be used for advising students. Stanford does not want to be seen as unduly contributing to a student's unhappiness and stress. It is a nice sentiment, but again, what is done to demonstrate that this is so? Even if no formal weighting is applied, how can one know what constitutes strength of curriculum versus too many unhappiness inducing AP's.</p>

<p>Then again, what about those students who enjoy all those AP classes and doing their EC's, and are not overly stressed? Are they at a disadvantage? Just think of the stress that is now added trying to figure out how much is too much. </p>

<p>This is all a highly subjective business for which there are few rules. Schools admit those who serve their interests and constituencies. I believe them when they say they want a broader pool from which to choose to serve those interests.</p>

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<p>I have no idea about Stanford, although from what I have seen of their admissions practices locally, they seem to value athletic prowess over the number of AP's.... but maybe that's just my perspective from having known some recruited athletes. </p>

<p>However, my own daughter didn't buy into the "hardest possible curriclum" madness -- she did not take all APs offered at her high school, and her courseload had some decided weaknesses, and it obviously didn't hurt her with college admissions. Of course, by skimping on math & science and foregoing AP's her junior year, she did have time to pursue her foreign language study intensely... which seems to me to be exactly the kind of point Dean Shaw is trying to make. </p>

<p>I think they would rather see students who pursue their interests than those who take every AP offered at their school. That is, if someone leans toward the arts, they might prefer to see that person take additional art studio or art history classes at their high school, rather than sign up for AP Calculus when it is clear that person has no interest in pursuing a career in math or sciences. And the kid who is more math and science focus doesn't need to take AP European History just because its offered - that kid might be better served by adding a non-AP science elective that his high school offers (for example, geology or astronomy) during an extra time slot than filling it up with an AP in a subject he has little interest in.</p>

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<p>Good article on the holistic admissions process at Lehigh Univeristy:</p>

<p>"Making the cut"</p>

<p>"J. Bruce Gardiner, dean of admissions and financial aid, in his 35th year at Lehigh, said: It's funny. We talk to alums all the time, and they say, Wow, I don't know if I could get into Lehigh today. The answer to that question is: they're probably right. The quality of the students has gone up and is continuing to go up.</p>

<p>Scores increasing</p>

<p>Almost every high school student applying to Lehigh has high scores, AP or honors-level courses, a long list of extracurricular activities, and hours worth of community service.</p>

<p>I started in the summer of 1999, and Lehigh has definitely become more competitive, Evans said.</p>

<p>Even in the last five years we've definitely seen the average SAT numbers go up, the average GPA numbers go up. Lehigh is attracting more competitive students every year.</p>

<p>The class of 2010 shows the prestigious nature of incoming undergraduate students at Lehigh. Their middle range SAT scores are 1260-1430. Of the 450 reported class ranks, 79 percent were in the top-10 percent of their class.</p>

<p>Clearly as the academic reputation goes up, the value of a diploma from anyone who got a diploma from Lehigh goes up with it, Gardiner said.</p>

<p>Within the last four years, the number of annual applicants rose by about 3,000. Last year, out of 10,689 applicants only 4,183 were accepted, 39 percent of the applicants. Only two students were admitted from the waitlist last year and zero students were admitted the year before.</p>

<p>Judging applications is an in-depth process that requires looking at many factors.</p>

<p>The transcript is always the most important and first thing I look at in terms of GPA and what types of classes a student has taken in terms of how competitive the student's high school is, Evans said.</p>

<p>No exact process exists for application review. Each admissions employee reads an application differently.</p>

<p>Each individual reader may have something that they look at first, Gardiner said. The tendency is to look at the individual pieces of the puzzle and the parts that make up an application. Many people say, Well, it;s the test scores or the C he got in 9th grade. That is not the case. It is a very holistic approach. There will be people that are higher in test scores and lower in grades and the reverse. Each and every file is different.</p>

<p>Each admissions employee is assigned a region from which he or she reads all the applications.</p>

<p>But, Gardiner must re-read the applications of all waitlisted and denied students.</p>

<p>Contrary to rumors, the application of a legacy child or grandchild of an alumnus does not get put into a separate pile, nor does being a legacy guarantee a student admission.</p>

<p>I like to think of being a legacy as an extra check mark, Evans said.</p>

<p>Exactly 14 percent of the class of 2010 is a Lehigh legacy. Legacies often expect admission to the university; however, having a less than average test score or GPA hurts a legacy's chance of admittance.</p>

<p>If we're looking at the application and we're on the fence maybe, if we don't know what to do with a student, whether to admit them or whether they are not admissible, that might be an extra point in their favor, Evans said.</p>

<p>With Lehigh's diversity problem, applying as a minority may be more of a help than as a legacy.</p>

<p>Diversity is definitely something that Lehigh is looking to improve and that's diversity on a lot of different levels, Evans said.</p>

<p>In The Best 361 Colleges Rankings, 2007 by The Princeton Review, Lehigh is ranked 17th for its homogenous student population.</p>

<p>We're looking for so many different things in the admissions process, and if a student can bring something different to the table, a different type of background, a special interest, a special talent, then yes, that's something that we are going to take into consideration, Evans said.</p>

<p>In the class of 2010, 68 percent of the students are Caucasian.</p>

<p>Fixing the problem of having a predominantly Caucasian campus is difficult because often minorities seek to attend universities that already have a significant minority population.</p>

<p>Multicultural recruiting is by far the most difficult thing we do. Gardiner said every school in the country is out there recruiting multicultural students.</p>

<p>Interest important</p>

<p>About 64 percent of the undergraduate population is from the tri-state area New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Luckily for students applying from the Northeast, acceptance quotas for individual high schools do not exist.</p>

<p>We don't have certain quotas at all for individual high schools, Evans said.</p>

<p>Accepting only a certain number of students from an individual high school could be hurtful to both Lehigh and the students.</p>

<p>I think I even had two high schools this past year where more than 40 students in the senior class applied, Evans said. That's a huge chunk of the senior class, and if 40 students are qualified then we will accept all 40.</p>

<p>Acceptance quotas also do not exist for early decision.</p>

<p>In the class of 2010, 33 percent were accepted early decision.</p>

<p>Lehigh is unique in offering a second early decision choice. Early decision two is still binding, however; the application deadline is Jan. 1, the same as the regular decision application deadline.</p>

<p>There are no quotas for early decision one or early decision two, Gardiner said. We;re a little bit more flexible with the early decision candidates, which is pretty common in most admissions offices.</p>

<p>Students are not accepted or judged based on whether or not they are predicted to attend Lehigh; however, showing interest in a school helps gain admission.</p>

<p>We look at interest, Gardiner said. It's one of the reasons why we encourage students to visit. We tell students that contact with our office is important. If we sense that a student is admissible but not at all interested in Lehigh regardless of where else he or she may get in, why would we waste an offer of admission on somebody that has no intention of enrolling?</p>

<p>According to Gardiner, an application can take anywhere from twenty-five to forty-five minutes to review. No single aspect of an application legacy, minority, or 1600 SAT scores will guarantee any student a letter of admittance.</p>

<p>Some factors definitely work in a student's favor and a lack of interest can hurt.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that everybody we admit here we feel can do the work and will bring something with them to the class, Gardiner said.</p>

<p>College flexibility</p>

<p>Lehigh does not have the same requirements many universities have in order to be involved in specific programs or activities.</p>

<p>Most programs and activities at Lehigh are open to all majors and students without prior knowledge or experience in the area.</p>

<p>I think what differentiates Lehigh is the flexibility of the programs and that students don't just apply to the engineering college with specific credentials and then stay there, Evans said. There are not a lot of other colleges out there that let students major in engineering and then minor in music.</p>

<p>Students are aware of the flexibility of the university.</p>

<p>I came into Lehigh as a bio major in the College of Arts and Sciences, said Lindsay Grubish, 07. After my first semester, I decided that I wanted to change and major in bio engineering, which required me to take extra courses and be in the College of Engineering.</p>

<p>It took two signatures for me to get into the engineering school and Lehigh accepted some of the courses that I had taken in arts and sciences as prerequisites for my engineering courses, Grubish continued. It was easy to switch, and now I'm majoring in what I truly want to study and get a degree in.</p>

<p>Because Lehigh is so flexible, many prospective students are multitaskers and are involved in activities outside of their major.</p>

<p>At the time, I was interested in joining a sorority as well as playing soccer and having a social life, said Genna Himmelstein, 07. Lehigh just had everything I was looking for and allowed me to do it all.</p>

<p>According to Gardiner: I think the type of student who is attracted to Lehigh is the type of student who likes to work hard and be active. You look at the orchestra and there are only five or six out of 100 students that are music majors. I think as kids investigate Lehigh the more they learn or sense that.</p>

<p>Lehigh students should be pleased admission standards remain high, and keep in mind essays are read closely.</p>

<p>My favorite essay story is a young man who wrote an essay about hunting, Gardiner said. He went into this long story about the experience of bonding with his dad. The trouble is that he wrote that he and his father were hunting for peasants instead of pheasants."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=20256%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=20256&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I sincerely believe that there are no quotas set for a given highschool or region. I think that if there are 40 apps from a highschool, however, all things equal or even not so equal, geographic diversity will come into play, and unless all 40 applicants are clearly head and shoulders above the crowd and happen to be single read type admits, a rare applicant in any group, they are going to be scrutinized and it will be a tough admit for many of them. It is very rare that you get any number of kids that are shoo ins for the more selective schools, and geography always plays somewhat of a rule. What many are not aware of, is that schools in your category and location are often clumped together. Many here think that they are competing against kids in their specific boys' catholic highschool when all of the area highschools are clumped together as a geographic unit. The local differnces between School A and B become minute to college looking at that region, unless one is waay up there and another a school not even on the radar screen. </p>

<p>Unfortunately public statements made by adcoms cannot be taken to heart, since there are PR issues, and many "should be" things said, that are not done on a case by case basis. Stanford may well not bother to look at AP labeled courses or AP test scores; in fact, most schools don't even ask for these scores from College Board, unlike SAT scores, until you are admitted, and then only if you want credit for them. It is not a big item. Many of the top prep schools including the New England ones who feed many kids to HPY have stricken AP designation from their courses. You can take the exam if you want at the end of the year, but often none of your senior course will be AP designated. Those schools are the radar of the top colleges do not need AP designation of courses. Where it can help is if you go to a school not known to a top college, and they are not easily able to assess the difficulty of your courses and your school's curriculum. AP designation, some exam scores from junior year, some classes at known summer programs or local colleges can really boost that applicant in terms of how his grades, class rank and difficulty of course load are assessed. But to say you don't look at SATs when your test results are waaay up there, and the school, Stanford does give athletic scholarship and other EC categories "byes" in academic criteria, is not true. There are too many top students who just don't test well, and they do not get into Stanford, unless they have some real hook. Heck, even the ones who have the test scores, need some hook, too, but they are definitely in the front of the line over those who have the same profile but lower test scores. So it is with any of these Ueber selective schools.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
At my high school, the girl who took an absolutely obscene courseload and is now at Princeton actually watered down her GPA by taking many, many academic electives that were unweighted (4 languages, none of which were weighted until the 3-4 levels). Some students refused to expand their horizons like this because they didn't want to "water down" their weighted GPAs. Similarly, some students refrained from taking college courses offered on campus because they weren't factored into GPA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There's a conflation of several things here. One is the use of APs as signifying taking the most difficult courses a high school has to offer. Another is achieving and maintaining a high GPA, often through APs, and finally taking college courses that are arguably more difficult than APs but do not contribute to a high GPA.</p>

<p>S, without any hook whatsoever at Stanford, was admitted there and courted by the adcom. He'd taken a large number of college courses as well as some APs. His GPA was way below that of the vals and sals at his high school. But Stanford recognized that the college courses he took were well above APs in terms of difficulty. So the fact that several ended up on his transcript as Pass/Fail and that in some others he achieved an A- or a B+ was not to his disadvantage. What Stanford saw was an applicant who was absolutely passionate about his area of interest. It also happened to be one that Stanford has been keen on strengthening, as we learned later.</p>

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<p>Marite,</p>

<p>Are you aware of areas that Stanford is trying to strengthen? Not necessarily your son"s area></p>