"Colleges go beyond GPA to cull applicants": The Art of Holistic Admissions

katonahmom · November 21, 2006, 9:29am

Hooks, tip factors, and yes, even that elusive concept of passion can make a difference but only for those applicants that make the academic cut. A close-up look at holistic admissions at Oberlin:

"Let's get one thing straight: The admissions process at highly selective colleges is not necessarily fair.

If you're an accomplished high school senior, or the parent of one, that's probably the last thing you want to hear as application deadlines loom...

The truth is that the margin between being admitted or denied admission can be razor-thin, a frankly subjective determination by admissions professionals of what an applicant brings to the class besides an academic pedigree.

Yale, for example, estimates that more than three-quarters of its applicants are academically qualified for the campus. Yet it admitted only 8.6 percent of the more than 20,000 who applied this year. Within the pool of candidates at highly selective colleges - those that admit only about a third of applicants or less - are any number of combinations to constitute a class, based on institutional goals.

"This is a process of community building," says Debra Chermonte, dean of admissions and financial aid at Oberlin College. "There's a lot of nuance involved. We care about breadth and opinions and viewpoints."

To outsiders, the decision process can seem as mysterious and capricious as divining the future with a Ouija board or crystal ball. It's actually a lot of hard work.

At highly selective Oberlin, a private institution in Lorain County ranked among the nation's top liberal arts colleges, the painstaking decisions that determine who gets in and who doesn't stretch over months of reading and re-reading thousands of applications and essays, evaluating teacher recommendations and test scores, and debating the less tangible merits of each candidate as part of the new class.

While driven primarily by academic ability, "You've really got to look at the whole picture," says Chermonte. "None of us should be reflected by just one aspect."

In a process awash in subtleties, there is no one profile that guarantees whether a candidate will sink or swim.

The closest thing to an Obie checklist was offered during a session with families visiting campus last fall by Leslie Braat, senior associate director of admissions, who described the ideal candidate as academically accomplished, with an open mind, an inner fire and a desire to change the world.

Among the college's applicants this year were a piano prodigy and a prima ballerina, the founder of a doo-wop group, an about-to-be published novelist, a student fluent in three languages, one who had studied at the Sorbonne and another who went to Thailand for cooking lessons.

There also were young people who excelled academically despite learning disabilities or the death of a parent, wrote compelling essays, or captivated interviewers with their passion for literature, math, music or politics...

Other significant "tip" factors included class rank, writing ability and teacher/counselor recommendations. Ranked lower were elements such as applicant interviews, work history, extracurricular activities and how much interest the applicant had shown in the college through visits or other contact.

It's also worth noting that, on average, the country's four-year colleges and universities accept about 70 percent of applicants, according to the national counseling association.

Oberlin, however, is among the highly selective, admitting just over 36 percent of its more than 5,500 applicants for a place in this year's incoming class. And because Oberlin has what's known in admissions circles as a self-selecting applicant pool, meaning almost all of those who apply are outstanding students, the college is viewed as even more selective than its admissions rate suggests.

The average weighted high school GPA of first-year students admitted to Oberlin's College of Arts and Sciences this fall was 3.9, and 3.6 unweighted. Seventy-two percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school classes and 42 were valedictorians or salutatorians at their high schools.

The successful candidates were chosen by Chermonte and her staff of 12 admissions professionals. They travel to more than 700 high schools by Thanksgiving, including trips abroad. They also staff college fairs; host campus events for visiting teens, families and high school guidance counselors; interview prospective students; and early each year, at the height of the admissions cycle, each read and evaluate more than 100 applications a week.

The pace can be grueling, part of the reason that in late March the staff always raises a champagne toast when the decision letters - the fruit of an admissions cycle that began almost 18 months before - are on their way to applicants.

At this year's celebration, a sheet cake, frosted in white with yellow trim, said it all: TGTLAITM (Thank God The Letters Are In The Mail).

The art of holistic admissions as practiced at Oberlin rests in sculpting that m

jazzymom · November 21, 2006, 12:34pm

KM:

Where's part 2 --- Inside the Admissions Committee?

katonahmom · November 21, 2006, 1:46pm

Jazzymom, here is part 2:

"There is a part of college admissions that few observe, the point at which the fate of thousands of applicants rests squarely in the hands of the people who decide who gets in - and who doesn't.

Late last November the admissions committee at Oberlin College gathered in a conference room to consider the first round of early-decision applicants - candidates who must commit to attending if accepted.

The idea of early admissions is a continuing subject of national debate. Critics say those applicants tend to be white and wealthier, creating the perception that minority and low-income candidates don't have the same access at the most selective schools.

Harvard, followed closely by Princeton and the University of Virginia, rocked higher education this year by announcing it was abandoning early admissions.

Debra Chermonte, dean of admissions and financial aid, said Oberlin is comfortable keeping its early-decision option, because if those accepted early aren't diverse, the admissions office can correct for that during regular decision deliberations.

With only a few hundred applications to weigh, the school's November and December early-decision committees are a warm-up for the marathon consideration of more than 5,000 applications that begins in earnest with the new year.

The mood is lighter, the pace slower during early decision. There's more discussion about each candidate.

That was a good thing for one of the applicants pitched by Leslie Braat, second in command of the admissions office. The candidate's grades and SAT scores are through the roof, "but . . . " Braat says, drawing out the word for emphasis.

All three of the young man's letters of recommendation refer to him as arrogant or annoying because of the purportedly high regard he has for his abilities.

Academically, he's a shoo-in.

The question really is how we feel about having him in this community," says Chermonte.

Tom Abeyta, an associate director of admissions, advocates on the student's behalf: So what if he's annoying, as long as he adds to the classroom with his intellect.

Charles "Chuck" Grim, a former Oberlin faculty member now on the admissions staff, says that the young man may be infuriating as a freshman, but within a couple of years he's likely to be sought after as a research assistant.

Chermonte continues to prod as some committee members shake their heads, unconvinced. She talks about the safety net Oberlin builds around students struggling academically. Could it do the same for a student who may need to grow in other ways?

Yes, the group finally decides, with several of the eight blurting out the name of the same faculty member as a good counseling match for the young man.

Arrogant or not, he's in...

Oberlin's admission committees are made up of various combinations drawn from its 13-member professional staff. Chermonte is the final arbiter.

Every application is read at least twice - once by the admissions representative assigned to that geographic region and also by a second reader from the staff. The regional rep presents the case to the committee and makes a recommendation. The second reader's recommendation also is noted.

Key information about each applicant is projected onto a large screen at the base of the committee table. This includes the applicant's high school GPA, whether it was weighted for honors and Advanced Placement courses, and the unweighted equivalent which is used as an equalizing standard. Also on display: SAT and ACT scores; a rating to reflect the rigor of the high school curriculum; numbers keyed to ethnicity and gender; whether a relative attended Oberlin, a personal rating that draws on impressions from the college's interviewer, and a ranking reflecting how likely the candidate is to enroll.

It's not really about the points, per se. But what they represent jump-starts the conversations.

Committee members often pepper the presenter with questions: What's the GPA progression? How's the writing? What math classes has she taken? How do her "t-recs" (teacher recommendations) look? Is there some explanation for that first-semester "C" in AP chemistry on an otherwise unblemished transcript?

What's not in play, by design, is whether the applicant will need financial aid to pay the school's more than $43,000 a year in costs, including tuition, room and board. Instead, unspoken or whispered cues pass between Chermonte and Braat - this applicant will need a full ride, perhaps offset by the next candidate who can pay full freight.

It's a delicate balancing act. Although more than half of Oberlin's students receive financial aid - averaging about $25,000 in grants, work-study options and loans - the economic reality is that a class has to include some who don't need help.

Chermonte is adamant that no fabulously qualified candidate be turned down because he or she needs aid. Like other factors that help sift the admitted from the denied, financial need is likely to come into play on what she calls the margins.

That's a reference to students who don't provide a needed additive to the mix. All things being equal at that point, financial need is among the factors that could tip the balance. Even something as small as intended major, can in rare cases make a difference among equally qualified candidates if, for instance, one is among relatively few interested in studying the classics.

What matters most, insists Chermonte, are the applicant's academic record and evidence of rigor in the high school curriculum. Even high scores on college-entrance exams are unlikely to compensate for poor grades.

Nor does a legacy connection - an applicant with a relative who's an alumnus - guarantee admission, although it could help a candidate on the margins.

By Dec. 5, with early-decision continuing, admissions rep Mary Mintel offers the committee an East Coast teen with a 2.95 GPA and a legacy connection to Oberlin. Her colleagues decide to deny...

Mintel's next candidate, who attends a rigorous private school with only 35 students in his graduating class, has a 3.26 GPA. But in the world of admissions, the quality of a particular high school's curriculum can outweigh the actual grades.

Part of being an effective admissions officer is knowing what high schools merit that nod and at which schools a significantly higher GPA might not be as impressive.

At one point, Chermonte - relying only on zip code - pinpoints the location of a New York high school with which the staff is unfamiliar...

School's reputation outweighs high grades

Conversely, in January, a female applicant boasting a 3.9 GPA is denied. Her high school's curriculum is considered modest by the committee, a view not contradicted by her SAT scores - just over 600 out of a possible 800 on the critical reading portion and in the high 500s on math...

An East Coast applicant, who already boasts an impressive research résumé and scored in the high 700s on the SAT, is clearly exciting to admission reps - at least until they see his 2.6 GPA. There's a collective groan.

A young woman from southern Ohio receives approving nods from the committee because in addition to good grades and test scores, the high school senior is taking Russian, philosophy and psychology at one of the state universities...

By February, when the admissions staff is in the midst of reading applications for eight to 10 hours a day, there isn't much time for gazing.

The stack of manila folders that Braat deposits on the committee table with a thump is more than a foot high. The other five admissions staffers in the room also have piles arrayed in front of them.

As they make decisions, one staffer charts the outcome on a thick computer printout. Someone else notes the results on the outside of each student's folder - admitted, rejected, wait-listed or deferred.

A Northeast Ohio applicant won't be offered admission. Committee members note that although her high school offers an array of AP courses, she took none of them. The admissions reps cluck over another applicant who scored 430 on the writing portion of the SAT, even though he ranks near the top tenth of his 350-member class.

One of the applicants is among 12 from the same high school and the committee pauses to compare his academic record with those of his peers. "We want to figure out where the scope is, the breadth, the fairness," explains Chermonte.

Contrary to what many assume, she adds, there is no limit on the number of students Oberlin will accept from a given school or part of the country...

Chermonte said committee decisions are continually reviewed to make sure they make sense in the overall context. They calibrate the class until late morning on March 24, when the fat letters of acceptance and the thin ones that signal bad news ship out of the admissions office mailroom."

<a href="http://www.cleveland.com/education/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isedu/1164023803315650.xml&coll=2&thispage=6%5B/url%5D">http://www.cleveland.com/education/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isedu/1164023803315650.xml&coll=2&thispage=6</a>

jazzymom · November 21, 2006, 2:46pm

Thanks for posting both articles.

This is why I keep telling friends about CC --- the nationwide range of contacts and information. Where else would I see a Cleveland newspaper? We're in CA and never hear about Oberlin and I don't think our hs is even on the list for the occasional admissions officer visit. But it's a college of interest since S2 is deeply involved in music (specifically jazz) even if he doesn't know yet if he wants to be a performance major. His other two areas of interest seem to be foreign language and chemistry -- got an amazing teacher this year -- but mostly as a 15 year old I would say his passions are music and sleeping. Not always in that order. Too bad the writer didn't do a third article about music admissions or how the music program influences the admissions process at O.

katonahmom · November 21, 2006, 3:26pm

Jazzymom,

I know about Oberlin because, back in the dark ages, my best friend went there and loved it. She became a professional muscian and played with several symphony orchestras in the U.S. and abroad over the years. You might be interested to know that, according to yet another article in this series on the class of 2010, they accepted quite a high number of students from California!

"The Obie Profile"

"Here's a quick look at Oberlin College and its Class of 2010, the first-year students recruited during the course of reporting these stories:

Founded: 1833, leader in admitting women and people of color to higher education

Location: 35 miles southwest of Cleveland in Lorain County

Annual cost: $43,146 for tuition, room, board and activity fee

Total enrollment: 2,829 undergraduates

Total first-year students: 680

Applicants to College of Arts & Sciences: 5,554

Admitted: 2,034, or 36.6 percent

First-years who attended public high school: 65 percent

High school class rank: 72 percent in top 10 percent

Gender: 55 percent female

Minority students in new class: Nearly 20 percent

Top states for producing new Obies: New York (109), California (88), Ohio (63), Pennsylvania (55), Massachusetts (56) and Maryland (44) "

<a href="http://www.cleveland.com/education/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isedu/1164023926315650.xml&coll=2%5B/url%5D">http://www.cleveland.com/education/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isedu/1164023926315650.xml&coll=2</a>

StickerShock · November 21, 2006, 9:49pm

[quote]
All three of the young man's letters of recommendation refer to him as arrogant or annoying because of the purportedly high regard he has for his abilities.

[/quote]
All three? He sounds insufferable. And these were the teachers who like him best....

musictoad · November 22, 2006, 7:14am

I too found this amazing that they'd ooh and ah over someone like this who will clearly disrupt their community with his antagonistic approach to life. A clear warning to kids not to dismiss what will be said about them.

The other aspect is their reliance on the writing portion of the test for a top student. That test is probably the least reliable in terms of ability. I know of no decent writer with an ounce of creativity who does well on it. The test deserves the dust bin.

MomOFour · November 22, 2006, 7:18am

[quote]
At one point, Chermonte - relying only on zip code - pinpoints the location of a New York high school with which the staff is unfamiliar...

School's reputation outweighs high grades

[/quote]

Except it's the zip code's reputation and not the school's in play here. Zip code analysis is one of my fears. We live in an okay school district, not stellar, but okay. For whatever reasons, known only to the USPS, our end of the school district falls into the zip code of a neighboring municipality where the schools are known to be really bad and the median income is 1/6 of our family income. Our school is relatively small and likely to be unfamiliar to many colleges. By zip code, my kids would be thought low income living in the midst of urban blight, and that the school for that zip code must be completely noncompetitive. Given the short amount of time each application receives, the actual context may not be apparent.

katonahmom · November 22, 2006, 7:21am

StickerShock, I had exactly the same reaction when I read that young man and the adcom's decision to admit him - made me think twice about holistic admissions process and a college's goal to create a "well-rounded class". Meanwhile, in the trenches, we poor parents and students are juggling the rallying cry for passion with that elusive concept of "fit" in the search to narrow down options and decide where to send in those apps. From the articles in this series on Oberlin, the message that gpa, and the high intellectual and academic standards it ideally represents, set the bar for admissions comes across quite clearly. The adcoms decision to admit, I suppose, is evidence of the adcoms giving this student the benefit of doubt since they want to evince confidence in the Oberlin college experience - that an education there will make this student less arrogant at the end of four years. Oberlin received 3,819 applications last year so the description of the subtleties of their holistic admission process most likely reflects the relatively small number of apps. as well as a basically self-selecting applicant pool. I suppose the dynamic of adcom meetings at places like Stanford, Princetion, Yale, Cornell or anywhere (elite or non-elite) with a high volume of applications would be quite different. Another thing I noticed was Oberlin's emphasis on the importance of the reputation of known (feeder) high schools as a means to judge the value of the GPA.

For many of us, the burning question is: what are colleges looking for? - not because we want a packaged student but simply because we are trying to lessen the admission frenzy and figure out just what fit means in order to find a good match.

At Carnegie Mellon, admissions people try to answer the question "What Do We Want to See?" and GPA and standardized test scores still top the list:

"Remember that colleges are looking for a well-rounded student body, therefore well-rounded students. Start your research early and check with the schools you are potentially interested in applying to – What factors are considered in the admission process? What standardized tests are required? Is there a profile available as far as what a “typical” admission candidate looks like (test scores, GPA, activities, etc.)?

At Carnegie Mellon we take a holistic approach to the application review process. There are many factors that we consider. These factors could be divided up roughly into three areas: academic performance, standardized testing results and non-academic performance.

If you are applying for academic programs, your high school performance will be the main factor in our admission decision because it’s the most meaningful indication of your abilities. We pay close attention to your curriculum rigor, the grades you’ve earned and the work you’ve accomplished. We’re interested in seeing that you’ve challenged yourself within your secondary school. If you are applying for programs in the arts, your artistic performance will be either the main factor or a significant factor (depending on the program) in our admission decision."

<a href="http://my.cmu.edu/site/admission/page.persp_hsj%5B/url%5D">http://my.cmu.edu/site/admission/page.persp_hsj</a>

katonahmom · November 22, 2006, 10:24am

Here is a brief, albeit quite opaque, look at holistic admissions at Stanford under Richard Shaw:

"Stanford received a record 22,322 applications and has accepted 2,430 prospective students a record-low admissions rate below 11 percent. The increased competitiveness inherent in such a frenzy of applications left some wondering about what goes into the selection process.

In the past, decisions were very individualized, with one person reading and passing competitive applications up the line all the way to the dean, who had a major role in the admissions decisions, Shaw said.

The dean said that under the new system, territory managers play a larger role. They are expected to understand their assigned region and its schools and forward competitive candidates to seasonal readers. Applicants are scored in a variety of areas, then sent up for committee discussion.

This is a democracy, Shaw said. There is great opportunity for discussion of relevant qualifications, for checks and balances and for having more eyes on the process.

Applicants are first evaluated on their high school academic programs, according to the rigor of their classes, grades and class standing. Scorers also concentrate on the candidates testing pattern on the SAT or ACT and sometimes on optional SAT IIs.

Further criteria based on personal qualities involve non-academic accomplishments, the students self-presentation, recommendations from teachers and counselors and personal strengths, such as overcoming poverty and adversity.

Readers also look for an unquantifiable quality that Shaw termed intellectual vitality.

We want applicants with passion, depth and breadth beyond the academic experience, who learn and engage in the subject material with maturity, Shaw said. Students should demonstrate intellectual curiosity as well as authentic and highly developed thinking. They should experiment creatively, read deeply and create energetically.

Shaw emphasized that it is not only a candidates numbers that make the cut.

The vast majority of candidates are competitive on quantitative measures, but the other categories for evaluation, in a holistic review, determine the decisions we make, Shaw said."

<a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/4/21/facultyFleshOut2010Admissions%5B/url%5D">http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/4/21/facultyFleshOut2010Admissions</a>

dstark · November 22, 2006, 10:56am

katonahmom, great thread. I appreciate the information.

stockmarket · November 22, 2006, 11:09am

Stanford has RD application due date (mailing done) by 12/15. That mean more people will apply earlioer tahn 12/15 and thus there is a increase in number of application even for RD round. This result in increasing selectivity.

Hypothesis: Elite colleges were not getting any more upward trend in number of kids applications (as student pool may shrink and other colleges may be catching on to them in selecetivity) so they are interested to recruit foreign student in the name of globalization.

Do not spell out the selection criterion as this will plummet the number of potential applicants. It is in the interest of colleges to be desiring more kids so they can claim they are selective.

This may be the reason why common application is gaiaing ground in school sepcific admission games theory.

katonahmom · November 22, 2006, 12:34pm

The following article, "Shaw implements several changes to admission office" culled from "The Stanford Daily" goes into a bit more detail about the committee review system - obviously Shaw does want to up the numbers of applicants (much like what he did while he was at Yale) and as the volume goes up different methods of evaluating the sheer number of apps. have to be put into play.

"While students have a good sense of what characteristics and portions of the undergraduate applications are most important, many are mystified about what happens between the time that they submit their applications to when acceptance letters go out. This even applies to members of the Class of 2009, who went through this process a little over a year ago.

I dont know who makes decisions, but I know that there are admissions officers who read the applications, said freshman Jeff Cornelius.

Im not sure exactly what goes on, but it must be really tough to decide, added freshman Wilson Velasco.

While current Stanford students may recall the signature of then Dean of Admission and Financial Aid Robin Mamlet on their acceptance letters, the Class of 2010 will be welcomed by a someone new.

That someone is Richard Shaw, the current dean of admission and financial aid. Already busy conducting his first admission cycle at Stanford and acclimating himself to the Universitys environment and culture, Shaw has also presided over a number of changes in the Admission Office.

A major change that Shaw is implementing is a modification of the process by which applications are reviewed. As before, there will still be an initial review of all submissions by admission officers assigned to different regions of the country.

Well be looking for the same characteristics and same outcomes in the coming classes, Shaw said. We want the most competitive applicants. I have the same commitment to bringing a diverse class to Stanford.

However, Shaw is implementing a committee-review system to replace the system of passing applications up to more senior officers before final approval by the dean.

It is more in concert with how the admission process is conducted at other comparable, competitive schools, Shaw said, adding that this was the system in place at Yale where he formally worked as dean of admission and financial aid.

Candidates will be heard in a committee environment, he said. This makes for a more democratic process. The committee members will have the opportunity to listen, ask questions and discuss candidates. This will ensure we give each candidate a fair hearing.

Upon hearing about this shift in the review process, current students were enthusiastic about the change and its possible outcomes.

I think its a good idea because each admission officer can have different perspectives on different students, said junior Nicole Bonoff. One thing that stands out to a particular officer can be better brought out in the committee system.

I wouldnt want my fate to rely on one person, Velasco said. In a committee, different people can highlight different traits.

Shaw also noted that this will bring about a different sort of environment inside the Admission Office.

This will also give the staff a sense of the whole and give them an opportunity to get their voices heard, he said.

Other changes this year include a move to an entirely electronic review process. Along with electronically-submitted applications, paper applications that come in will be scanned into a computer system. Admission officers will be able to go online to read the applications, instead of having to sift through piles of papers. According to Shaw, this project has been in the works for nearly a year. He also added that he has several other goals for the office that he hopes to explore over the course of the next few years.

I also hope to increase the level of outreach nationwide and worldwide; I want to attract the most competitive students, he said. Our efforts will be focused on convincing competitive students that Stanford is a viable option."

<a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2005/11/17/shawImplementsSeveralChangesToAdmissionOffice%5B/url%5D">http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2005/11/17/shawImplementsSeveralChangesToAdmissionOffice</a>

jazzymom · November 22, 2006, 1:26pm

What, Stanford is not competitive enough already? With an 11 percent admission rate?

<pre><code>Shaw's comments are certainly not about trying to mitigate the frenzy, unlike the published comments by other admissions deans (MIT for example) who, hypocritically or not, have at least talked about wanting to see some normalcy return to teenage life. He's pushing hard to see applicants showing traits that you go to college to develop: authentic and highly developed thinking...passion with depth and breadth beyond academics. Walk on water, kids. And just to make it more challenging, blend that with what the Oberlin review committee discussed and you better realize you should walk on water, but be humble and self-effacing about it.
</code></pre>

Rick_Tyler · November 22, 2006, 1:45pm

[quote]
By zip code, my kids would be thought low income living in the midst of urban blight, and that the school for that zip code must be completely noncompetitive.

[/quote]

I know what you meant, but this does come off sounding really bad.

Rick_Tyler · November 22, 2006, 1:51pm

[quote]
I have the same commitment to bringing a diverse class to Stanford.

[/quote]

"Diverse" must mean something very specific at Stanford, but one thing they are not diverse about it is their evaluation criteria. At the presentation I attended for Stanford, the young Admission Officer made it crystal clear (he repeated it three times) that they looked for grades, class rank, and course load. A slight paraphrase, "Why should we look at SATs or ECs when we have the grades right there?" I give them credit for being really honest about what matters most to them. There was none of this "holistic approach" stuff at all. (OK, he also set a new world's record for the greatest number of repetitions of the word "diversity" in a college recruiting presentation.) Since my son is not #1 in his class, and is not a Valedictorian, we crossed Stanford off his list.

xiggi · November 22, 2006, 2:16pm

[quote]
I also hope to increase the level of outreach nationwide and worldwide; I want to attract the most competitive students, he said. Our efforts will be focused on convincing competitive students that Stanford is a viable option."

What, Stanford is not competitive enough already? With an 11 percent admission rate?

[/quote]

While increasing the outreach efforts might increase the number of applicants, the purpose is not to boost the selectivity ratings. Dean Shaw is keenly interested in casting a wider net and bring in students who have not been courted that well in the past. In so many words, you can expect a shift in the student body on a regional basis with a less California-centric and more southern and especially southeasterners students.

In addition, you may also expect subtle changes in the predcited majors of students, with an effort to diversify from the current hard sciences focus.

Changes are coming at Stanford and they all point in the right direction, which is thankfully unfetterlike.

jazzymom · November 22, 2006, 3:26pm

I beg to differ that the purpose (one of several perhaps) is not to increase selectivity. In the link KM provided, the bragging-rights mention that Stanford achieved a "record low" admission rate is right up there at the top. The main purpose may be to attract a more diverse, highly talented applicant pool, but the result --- a happy coincidence for them --- will be a higher selectivity rate unless they plan to work to discourage applications from some areas as they work to encourage more from others.

"We've enjoyed a 10 percent increase in interest in Stanford and we want to build on that," Shaw says. "...I want to attract the most competitive students. Our efforts will be focused on convincing competitive students that Stanford is a viable option."
It's Stanford's right to spend as much money on outreach and marketing as they deem necessary, but why is it that other colleges get raked over the coals for doing the same thing?

xiggi · November 22, 2006, 6:58pm

Jazzymom, here are a few additional quotations from Dean Shaw:

""I think we've rested on our laurels for a long time and just received the applicants that we get. What I'm trying to accomplish is to bring a very diverse perspective from across the nation to Stanford. *We want students from the southeastern United States, northeastern, the Midwest, the southwest, and foreign countries to be interested in pursuing their education in a place like Stanford and bring their diverse perspectives and experiences to us. I'm not interested in receiving more applications. I'm interested in reaching out to kids that really are not on our wavelengths. * Quite frankly, the schools we compete with do it ten times as much as we do it. In other words, the representation in their student bodies is much broader and deeper."

"We're also going to increase our recruitment travel almost immediately tenfold. We're joining the "Exploring College Options" consortium with Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, and Penn to travel to 300 cities in the fall of 2006 and spring of 2007. By ourselves, we are going to start doing summer recruitment for all those kids in all those towns who don't have the money to go to vacation towns and who stay at home in the summer, work at their local grocery store and go to the library and hang out at the Dairy Queen. We'll bring them information about Stanford in five cities this summer.

"And then we are developing long-term recruitment strategies for the international market. We started travel last fall in Latin America and Mexico, and we'll return this year. We're going to Asia in two weeks that will be a big trip for my staff. And we'll add three other continents in the fall. As you can tell we're beginning to reach out to the strongest scholars worldwide. And this is all in concert with the extraordinarily wonderful announcement from President Hennessy that in five years or so perhaps we can try to work towards being completely need-blind and need-based.

jazzymom · November 23, 2006, 12:11am

[quote]
I'm not interested in receiving more applications.

[/quote]

Sure. Shaw doesn't want more, he wants different, deeper, broader; I get it. But when all this global and national outreach does result in a spike in total applications and when, as a result, the selectivity rate does get a boost, and if that happens to result in a bump up in national or international rankings, then that will just be a happy coincidence to the true goal of creating a more talent-diverse, international student body, no? Actually, I agree with you that this is a valid direction for Stanford to take. But should I believe that administrators are oblivious to the impact these steps might have on rankings? Who's to say that S is not eyeing that 1,2,or 3 spot in USNWR? Perhaps there is an underlying motivation to want to see HYS or HSP or even SYP as the new frequently used abbreviation on CC.

I could go on, but someone who appears to be taller and hairier is about to walk in the door and I gotta go. Happy Thanksgiving! :)

Thread		Replies	Views
Stanford dean: School’s ultra-low admit rate not something to boast about Applying to College	121	504	April 16, 2021
Collection of articles on Inside the Admissions process: selective LACs Applying to College	58	652	April 16, 2021
Weaker signal, more noise - the dilemma(s) of the highly selective college in the current age Parent Cafe	41	90	April 14, 2021
Former Stanford Admissions Officer Answers Your Hardest Questions - ASK ME ANYTHING! Applying to College ama	132	71936	November 27, 2020
How much of an impact does number of applicants from a single school matter? Stanford University	36	107	April 18, 2021

"Colleges go beyond GPA to cull applicants": The Art of Holistic Admissions

Related topics

CONNECT WITH US