I would also caution thinking there were no cases of spread in an organization unless you had direct inside knowledge or were physically there yourself. I know our schools had plenty of spread. But the system in place maintained if all protocols were followed there was zero way the spread happened at school. So if 2-5 kids in a class came down sick, the teacher was asked “were protocols followed?” If the teacher says yes, it was determined no spread in school occurred. And nobody else had to quarantine. If the teacher said no, the spread occurred and the teacher was reprimanded. So how do you think subsequent teachers responded?
And in my organization, 20% of the firefighters came down with covid in a 10 day window. And we were never listed as having an outbreak. I have no idea why.
But also note these instances were pre-vaccine. I feel much better with vaccines in place. But with the spiking cases, I will likely bring back my air purifier. I really don’t want to have to wear a mask 8-5 especially since everyone in my office (except maybe the new guy) is vaccinated.
Our governor here follows the state’s department of public health and the CDC guidelines. Those all point to opening school in person and practicing reasonable indoor measures. They also point to reasonable measures that allow vaccinated persons to attend larger events in relative safety. Not sure that going above and beyond merely to accommodate someone’s personal fears is helping that person. They might actually need some counseling to help them through that issue.
Seems like the underlying sources of disagreement found in this thread (and some other COVID-19 threads) are:
Varying assumptions of incomplete information (like how dangerous Delta is, or the risk of long COVID-19 in a breakthrough infection) that are based on wildly different guesses about what risk levels (both personally and generally) actually are.
Wasn’t there a poll (maybe Gallup?) that found a huge correlation between fears of Covid and political identity? Something like the question “Is the pandemic over?” got a huge Yes from Republicans and No from Democrats. This was a few months ago so it’s outdated right now due to Delta. But I found it fascinating at the time. I don’t have access to a computer where I can dig through the Internet and find it but I’ll try to later on. If successful, I’ll post.
Really that’s conflating two separate things:
a) varying assumptions about what risk levels actually are
b) varying attitudes about what risk level is personally acceptable to you.
Sometimes that latter one may be correlated with political views (for example that may be linked with how much you feel you should be doing to protect others vs everyone just being responsible for themselves), but it’s also likely correlated with age (young people are usually more willing to take risks).
I hate that people make this political and try to pit one against another. It’s easy to point to the other side…but that does zero good.
BTW in NYC the least vaccinated are POC…esp in the Black community. They don’t trust the vaccine or the CDC.
The news loves to spin - hate and division - they get clicks and views. I have friends from all political spectrums. Some just don’t trust the vaccine…and they are not political or conservative.
I don’t have access to the article, but I always wonder…who do they poll? Do we really believe that 57% think it’s over? I think the entire country knows it’s not over - some may not fear it, some may not worry because they are either vaccinated or recovered.
I always find these division polls to be so harmful for the good of our country. A pandemic should have united us not divided us.
It depends what your definition of “over” is. To some people, the “pandemic” means lockdowns and restrictions on daily life, not how many people are getting sick.
And that question of definitions is not simply about political views (though it may correlate with “is it still affecting you personally” vs “is it still affecting your society” or even “is it still affecting the world”). Is the pandemic “over” in New Zealand (no lockdowns, no local cases)? Is it “over” in other countries if all restrictions have been removed but there are still cases? How many cases?
Actually, I am approaching it as an employment lawyer. Employers must comply at least with any applicable state, federal and local mandates. They can also go above that and require vaccines as a condition of employment, but they do not have to do so. Fear of getting sick from in person work is not grounds for requiring accommodation, per federal law. So employees are free to refuse vaccines, or refuse to work in person, but either can be grounds for termination.
Unfortuntely there is no agreement yet on the part of insurers and medical organizations about what long covid actually is. (Gently) This is part of the problem, JB. You want people to risk not only becoming disabled to teach your kids; you want them to risk impoverishment, too. The same people who already have been living on a small fraction of your income to do that sort of work in normal times.
Really think about that one, then go have a look in the mirror at yourself, and ask how you got to this point.
I didn’t know that Monoclonal antibodies were being offered as an option. Wonder where you can get them? Can’t imagine an urgent care would have them…
To that end… a follow up on an earlier post here about an event last weekend. Turns out my S is now positive and his GF, with the exact same symptoms, tested negative. They are both fairly sick and believe they may be losing their sense of smell. My son has asthma so needless to say, I am worried and a bit mystified by how many people are actually positive and sick. Wonder if he should investigate the antibodies or if it is already too late. Exposure was a week ago today.
Stands to reason that her negative test (PCR) is a “false negative” - given the symptoms and that now more than a dozen others have also tested positive. And to reiterate, ALL these cases are in fully vaccinated people.
Apologies if this is a topic for the medical thread. I had originally posted about this here out of concern for the fall and classes.
Is it as clear cut as you seem to suggest? “Can be grounds” still comes with certain responsibilities and exceptions on the part of the employer I thought. Specifically…
“Employers have to make reasonable accommodations for staff who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons or refuse vaccination because of “sincerely held religious beliefs,” according to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).”
As a corporate lawyer are you advising against clients observing the “two legally recognized exceptions from mandatory vaccines for employees: disability-related reasons and sincerely held religious beliefs”?
You should talk to the docs who treat it, then.
I’m always astonished by how well doctors and other healthcare workers keep their tempers in the face of determined ignorance that harms not just individual health, but public health.
Sorry, I left out the fact that I’ve got a stock of Binax tests and of course would test immediately if I felt ill, and go in for PCR if it came up positive. Of course, with Delta, that’s a bit late for transmissivity, since best available data says you’re good and infectious for a couple of days before testing. I would recommend that everyone keep a stock on hand if they can afford it. $25 for two rapid tests or thereabouts, no scraping your frontal lobe to get the sample.
And of course we likely won’t have good data on delta until there are other reasonably fit variants of delta around and widespread. But I am going with the tacit presumption that whatever the original did, delta does better, since that seems to be the trend.
If the Biden DoEd memo makes it to higher ed in time, this may be avoidable in places that aren’t already a swamp of plague. But Florida’s got every bad card in the deck, so I’m not surprised by this, and am guessing that they’re also seeing their workforce nope right out of that situation.
Please wear a mask and encourage others to do so. We have no idea what the transmission rate actually is among vaccinated; we just know that it happens often enough for anecdotes to be popping up all over, and those are mostly symptomatic cases, so again, no clue about asymptomatic. Also, Delta is extremely contagious and generates high levels of virus. It really only takes one guy horking out unfiltered virus to do it for an entire room full of people – last year’s was bad enough that way, but this is to original as playing solitaire is to a small high school’s graduation ceremony. That’s why NZ and Oz are so vigilant. They’re both very Do Not Want.
When my D comes over from her dad’s, where she’s been the last few days and they’re all masked but definitely not careful people, we both wear a mask in the house. Outside, no.
It may be possible, in places with strong unions or collective bargaining power, to extract more concessions from employers regarding terms of employment. Also, if one is an irreplaceable superstar, that gives one more bargaining power as well. Lacking those options, it is quite unlikely any individual can force a change to their work terms at this point.
Nobody in my office except me wore a mask when transmission was sky high and nobody was vaccinated. Nobody will wear one now unless forced to do so. And HR will not mandate anything unless forced by the state/fed. All social distancing protocols are still lifted in my building.