Colleges in the 2021-2022 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 2)

Seems like similar sentiments being expressed here:

“But college administrators at elite universities seem to be managing toward exceptions, not rules. They seem to be keeping liability and PR in mind, with little eye toward giving their paying customers the once-in-a-lifetime quality experience they advertised. On campuses where vast swaths of the total population are fully vaccinated and where omicron poses little risk of severe illness or death, hypercautious administrators are denying students the intellectual and social environment they came for, asking them to be compliant hermits once again in pursuit of a COVID Zero that may never come.”

The Purdue stats quoted in this article are pretty eye opening, with almost no one suffering significant or severe symptoms.

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The article you linked was written by the anti-vax-media-darling Dr. who forcefully claimed that we’d reach herd immunity by last April. We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April - WSJ

I have read some of the articles from Dr. Makary and I haven’t seen any articles or video clips where he has been anti-vax. What I have seen is that he is pro-vaccine, but anti-mandate which is not the same thing. I also seen that he was against 2 shots for young people(especially 12/13 years old boys) because of the threat of myocarditis and asked for more research on the matter and recommending 1 shot or looking at adjusting the dosage. I have watched doctors who I trust disagree greatly with some of his opinions (especially around a masking policy for children) and his herd immunity prediction was just flat wrong, but I think the anti-vax label is just not true (at least as far as I have seen).

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We may have reached herd immunity had the mandates been different.

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Given the lack of a global mandate, unlikely

Isn’t this akin to allowing your child to drive a car with no brakes because accidents are inevitable?
what if the kid w/ Covid is your child’s roommate? Is it fair for anyone to be forced to live in a box with an infected person when precautions can potentially prevent spreading the virus to others? People do die from it. Even from a legal liability perspective- the do nothing approach is not reasonable.
Fatigue is no reason to be careless

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Colleges have accurately anticipated that they will not have room for all those likely to test positive, hence shelter in place. The healthy roomie can always move out if they wish.
Positivety rates were 33% of those tested in NJ earlier this week. One public school system in a nice suburb closed after random pool testing disclosed a 50% positivety rate. Avoiding exposure is unlikely.

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…so there is no room for “all those that test positive” but the “healthy roomie” can move out? …to where?
There seems to be a break in logic here, not to mention your proposal shifts the burden to the person who may have been cautious in an attempt to avoid infection. (No, I am suggesting each infected person is to blame for his/her status.) Positivity rate ( or % of all tests that come back positive) is not a meaningful metric as it can easily be manipulated by testing everyone, including those that have little chance of being positive. Alternatively, if testing is only offered to symptomatic persons, it will be high.

It’s good they are letting the students move in so they can all get omicron over with at the same time and enjoy some good dorm parties, and get covid over with. The spread is inevitable, and remote learning is unnecessary.

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You have to understand, so long as peer institutions have similar policies and parents yelling similarly, they’re much less worried about you than they are about staffing. Universities are all about longevity of problems, wars of attrition, things like that. People there literally wait for administrators and tenured people to retire or die; it’s sometimes the least expensive, most efffective way of dealing with a serious problem. Individual students and parents are gone in the blink of an eye, along with their grievances.

In the end the admin is always engaged in a game of chicken with the faculty and, to some extent, the staff. If it’s clear that significant numbers of faculty and instructors are going to refuse, they’ll find ways to back off.

Oh, @homerdog, this is academia generally, and has been since long before both of us were born. I mean these realities are where the academic farce comes from, long line from Lucky Jim to Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf to…what was the Mamet one? Oleanna, and that Ian McEwan novel from a few years back. Solar, that was the one. Nabokov had a go at it, and so did Malamud. Even Polanski. That very dangerous mincing Ivy academic in The Ghost Writer – spot on, hats off. (Oh. And The Browning Version, there’s a heartbreak. Not farce, that one, but absolutely on the nose, how the school robbed that poor grim old dutiful teacher. Got the academic manner of putting the knife in down pat.) As long as we’re on comic verisimilitude: A Serious Man. Both the blinkeredness of the protag and the – I can only describe it as “the academic lean”, when the department chair shows up in the protag’s office to mention, elliptically, the poison-pen letter about his tenure promotion and leans against the doorjamb, and tell him that it’s nothing to worry about, meaning it’s a five-alarm fire. Mwah. Perfection.

You’re not supposed to be bothered with any of this, of course. You’re there to drop off the kid and the money, and be Parent of [Firstname Lastname] on the mailings. But, you know, since you want to talk operations, here we are.

My university certainly is awful, but it’s awful in depressingly average ways. I mean to most non-rankings-hyperventilating collegegoing students in this country, my U looks pretty good because it’s stuffed with gear of all kinds and has a lot of majors and buildings and whatnot, also much sportsball and cheering. The pity is that these places are capable of more. Just this morning I was realizing that I happened to get here in the middle of this place’s golden age, and that this is why people so revere the president who was one before the one I first knew. It’s like in history where a king is called “the Good”. They only call him “Good” because most are so wretched anyone who’s actually good is a major standout. The next two after him were also pretty darn good, and that was reflected in the quality of the university, but by then the politics of the state had changed, K-12 had started crumbling, and they finally managed to run off the last of the Good presidents. Haven’t had one in decades. So it goes. Same story in much of state-U land. If you want a rough guide, have a look at how many billions of dollars a state system’s in the hole – it’s directly proportional to the grifting at admin level.

All of this would be crummy if they didn’t have such a racket going that they’re both wasting so many of the kids’ time and impoverishing families intergenerationally. You throw the impoverishment in there and it’s not just a bunch of nerds entertainingly if very slowly stabbing each other in modern-day royal-court dramas. (Oh, right, I hear that Netflix thing’s also accurate, but I can’t bring myself to watch it.) Then it becomes something unconscionable. But! Here we are. My advice, as ever: at least don’t pay money for it.

Most universities will open. Most students and faculty and staff will get sick. Some sizeable proportion of them will be sick for a long time, and most of them won’t be able to afford it. Is this necessary? No. That’s where we are.

Sorry, some strange quote/reply things happening in that last one – that was to @homerdog and was meant to have a double quote.

So when a significant portion of the students, staff, and faculty have Covid, then how exactly would in-person classes work, anyway?

  • Are you suggesting that sick students just keep attending in-person classes?
  • Should sick professors teach in-person?
  • Should those professors who somehow avoid getting sick teach in-person even if a high portion of the class is out sick (or worse, sick but present)?
  • Should sick staff keep coming to work?

Even if you believe Covid is now basically like the common cold (it isn’t, but let’s pretend it is for the sake of the discussion), there is still the logistical issue of trying to operate a college when a high percentage of the students, staff, and faculty are infected. The 7 day average for Covid tests in LA county is currently 20.4%, so even though it isn’t as dangerous as the last round, there will be a will be a large number of students, staff, and faculty out with Covid.

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Like where? Hotel? Youth hostel? Back home? In a car?

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Oh! I get it – @homerdog, you were replying to the thing about coverage for sick profs, not the other thing. Apologies. But yeah, that’s also an ordinary sort of practice. I don’t think most people appreciate just what kind of skeleton crews most universities are running on after three decades of being shouted at and punished for not behaving “like a business”. Well, now they do, ish, and that means a lot of the teaching work’s done by wage slaves with effective wages below minimum, and at the point of business contact, where the needle meets the record – paying butts in seats with a prof up front – everybody knows that not turning up’s the original sin. Everybody also knows that you’d better be prepared to find nobody who’s willing or able to take over for you.

Now you know why there are so few disabled people and single moms on the tenure track.

I think, with the exception of still requiring masks in the classroom during a major outbreak (like now) that this should be treated more like flu. Symptomatic testing only, staying in your room when sick, classes in person. Sick professors may have to cancel class and do a makeup class or can zoom in to class if they prefer (and are not too sick). The flu model is where we should be.

I’m pretty sure this is the model that most colleges in the south are following (and have been following) for the last 1.5 years.

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UCLA just announced that they will be remote till the end of January (at least)-4 weeks of the 10 week quarter. That’s after announcing that they’ll be remote the first two weeks of the winter quarter and having the students reserve spaced-out return to campus appointments after boosters and negative COVID tests. LA county hospitalizations are spiking, but I’m unaware if there is current data to distinguish between the vaxed and unvaxed. My daughter was due to return tomorrow. She is boosted and got her PCR test Thursday morning and still no results. I am beyond frustrated at this point. Rose Bowl happened in LA, Super Bowl is due to happen but my kid’s 10 person class cannot meet in person (she has larger classes also and a lab class with 20 students; I bring this up as an extreme example. All of her profs and TAs are wanting to return to in person according to her). They say, come to campus to attend online school if you want. She loved her first quarter on campus. Not sure what she will do. That’s us. I sure hope your kids are in a better spot.

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UPenn requiring double masks.

Masking remains a key mitigation strategy in our efforts to minimize transmission during this virulent phase of the virus. Beginning January 7, all members of the Penn community in campus buildings will be required to double mask or to wear a KN95 or N95 mask. We will also increase the availability of masks across campus.

https://coronavirus.upenn.edu/content/public-health-guidance

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I read another post that claimed their school had suggested sleeping on a friend’s floor.
But roomie is a close contact, right? Shouldn’t they also be quarantining?

Stanford further delays start of in person class as 700 test positive. They were already in remote classes. Looking into moving out the non-positive students to alternative housing.

Acquaintance moved into UCLA per their protocols with negative PCR. Tested positive on rapid upon arrival. Isolated with other positive student. Both took PCRs. Acquaintance tested negative on PCR and released from isolation. Roomie for the night tested positive. Acquaintance now has been in direct contact for many hours with COVID positive person. I did not pry and do not know how the saga ended. You cannot make this stuff up… I am grumpy today and should stop posting. :upside_down_face:

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