Hi folks. Lots of off topic and flagged posts lately. Please say focused on the title of te topic. Thanks!
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I believe these colleges also use PCR tests, instead of antigen tests, because they want to be able to catch asymptomatic carriers of the virus (certain countries like Canada require PCR tests for the same reason). Infected students/young people are more likely to be asymptomatic. Current turnaround time for PCR tests is clearly problematic, but thereās no reason why it should be more than 24 hours (as is the case in some countries).
Below is a recent post from another thread by @college1styr, a faculty member. To my mind, @college1styr does a great job of explaining the practical āpedagogical reasonsā for the recent moves to temporary online:
This last point keeps getting lost in the discussion of whether these measures are useful in stop the spread. It isnāt just about stopping the spread, it is about providing the students with classes without disruption even when a substantial portion are unable to attend.
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I donāt believe the risk to the student athlete from a fan in row 60 refusing to adhere to mask requirements is equivalent to the risk of near elbow-to-elbow contact in a classroom.
Additionally, the air volume is not comparable in a classroom setting to a basketball gym w/ a 50ft+ ceiling (dilution effect).
I am not suggesting it is completely safe for everyone in attendance; I am merely looking at the risk to those required to attend both events, i.e., the athletes at games and students & instructors in the classroom. Spectators make the decision to attend on their own. Most people agree there needs to be a balance of risk and some semblance of normalcy. This becomes challenging when activities involving some risk are used as justification for riskier activities. In my opinion this seems to be the basis for your argument and, ironically why some schools are less flexible- to avoid the slippery slope
You are missing my pointsā¦I certainly wasnāt talking about an athlete bearing risk from a fan in row 60, wherever did you think up that re-direct? The athlete IS bearing risk in the locker room, on the court, eating meals with the team (no the Duke players donāt have grab and go mealsā¦again just using them for an example), etc.
Just to be clearā¦are you saying itās riskier for a college student to be in class fully masked and not eating/drinking/shouting vs. being a spectator at a crowded basketball game where masking is not enforced, people are veryclose together, and some may be eating/drinking/shouting?
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Thatās the thing though. We donāt know how long things will be virtual.
To my knowledge there is no school that has publicly stated the metrics that will allow a change to in-person class and diningā¦and thatās a problem.
Is it how many students/staff/faculty isolated? Or the positivity rate (on what type of test)? Positivity rate in the larger surrounding community?
It seems thatās what people are struggling withā¦because if this turns into a long span of virtual schooling I am reading that some on this and other threads would take a leave this semester.
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Lax rules by one organisation shouldnāt be used as an excuse for a different one to abandon their definition of best practice. We donāt say abandon speed limits just because other countries around the world doesnāt have them and itās ā unfair ā to our drivers.
If colleges want to limit spread as much as reasonably possible by enforcing masks and social distancing then they shouldnāt just throw their hands up just because local restaurants and sports centres are not going by the same standards.
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We were at the Wake Forest/Syracuse menās basketball game yesterday. It was not at capacity but the lower level was pretty packed. Masking is required but not enforced (their version of enforcement is people walking around holding signs that say, āmasks are required at all timesā They donāt speak to anyone who isnāt wearing a mask - they just walk up and down the aisles with the signs. At any given time, I would estimate that 1/3 -1/2 of the people who I could see werenāt wearing masks while in their seat and also while walking around the concourse.
WF is playing Duke at home this week and I guarantee that coliseum will be sold out, there will be people not wearing masks and zero enforcement, so I agree with @Mwfan1921 - why are the rest of the students repeatedly punished with rules that arenāt enforced in sporting venues? (Answer: because D1 sports sports are huge revenue-generators so college officials look the other way. Money=what Covid???)
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As explained by @college1styr above, the pedagogical advantage of temporary online classes is they allow everyone access to coherent classes even though a high percentage of students will be unable to attend in person due to covid. This would be true regardless of the relative risks of different activities, or even if a college chose to have no other restrictions during this next couple of weeks.
I understand and share this concern. No one wants a return to long term virtual learning. I think the schools are planning on this wave burning itself out quickly, and from what Iāve read it seems like the science (and the shocking rate of infection) supports this.
As for when colleges will return to in person, some schools have already plotted out their plan. See the description of Stanfordās plan, above, for example, which is currently online but is transitioning back, to in person starting on the 18th (if I recall correctly).
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These are good points. In addition to pedagogical issues, temporary online classes provide campuses the ability to phase the return of students over a longer time period with less disruption to learning, as students can be returning to campus during the online period and donāt need to arrive all at once.
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Regarding sports at Duke, Iām not sure a zero fan policy or even the suspension of the sports season would have had much impact. Hereās the message from Duke last week, which clearly states that spread among staff and faculty, among other factors, makes normal campus operations unsustainable:
āDecember 31, 2021
Dear Students, Faculty and Staff,
We have all watched with great concern the extraordinarily rapid spread of the Omicron variant in our communities and around the world. On Thursday, the state of North Carolina reported the highest daily number of new COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, representing a 60% increase over the previous one-day record. We have also observed an incredibly high number of positive cases across our workforce this week, and increasing numbers among students who are already here in Durham.
Dukeās infectious disease and public health experts have advised us to anticipate that a large number of students will test positive during campus entry testing next week, requiring them to isolate in accordance with the new CDC guidelines. We also anticipate that positive test results, isolation periods and caregiving responsibilities affecting our faculty and staff will have an impact on campus operations and services as the semester begins.
This is a disappointing reality that requires us to once again revise our plans for the beginning of Spring semester in order to protect the health of our campus and community and to ensure the continuity of campus operations.ā
Whether 8k at the hoops game or zero, it doesnāt seem like the needle would move re: changes to campus operations.
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If the surrounding communities have a high level of transmission, and faculty and staff are freely interacting with that community without restrictions, then any additional campus restrictions are pointless. A campus is not a bubble, particularly when faculty/staff/visitors/spectators come and go freely.
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I donāt know whether this is intentional, however, you seem to be ignoring a clear qualifier I included in my prior post
āI am not suggesting it is completely safe for everyone in attendance; I am merely looking at the risk to those required to attend both events, i.e., the athletes at games and students & instructors in the classroom. Spectators make the decision to attend on their own.ā
Someone else made the point that not ever spectator follows the mask rules; I assumed you were furthering this argument. My point about being out of view of security is that this also means it is not taking place on top of the student athlete required to attend the event.
To answer your question, no- these are not the same. A student cannot decide to not attend classes whereas a spectator can stay home. This is a false equivalent
The spectators are not all vaxxed, correct? Or tested? And with a high transmission rate, any student who attends such an event may transmit it to roommates and friends. Plus all those infected people roaming the campus on their way to and from the event. Donāt many of these events use student workers as ticket takers, etc? Arenāt they being exposed? Donāt they have to work as a condition of financial aid?
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For Dukeā¦for basketball. Read the following. Proof of vaccination or negative test within 72 hours is needed to attend. Plus they have a rapid test site there for $45.
Sounds like the folks attending are expected to show proof of vaccination or negative test. This is part of what is written:
ā
The plan, which requires all guests to wear a mask as well as present proof of COVID-19 vaccination or a negative test within 72 hours, is detailed below: ā
So students enrolled in Duke can offer more, vax status plus testing, but canāt attend class?
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Donāt think the Duke parents arenāt aware of the raw hypocrisy of 10,000 at Cameron and online classes. Iām disgusted by the administrationās decision to prioritize basketball over education. I truly hope my daughter transfers, thereās a lot she still likes about Duke, but theyāve totally lost me.
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You are 100% right. Grab and go on campus but I can go right into town and sit in a restaurant. At this point none of these rules make sense. We are Vaxxed, boosted, masked and tested 3x/week. Online classes for our return, no gym, no eating with friends or gatherings. I can also go to the local gym which is still open. These rules are not in keeping with the variant. Time to move on
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Incorrect- proof of vax status for entry = no unvaccinated spectators.
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Has anyone here been to an indoor sporting event. The āCovid checkā is essentially a disinterested person waving throngs of fans through the gate becuase theyāre told not to confront anyone, about anything, in our current climate.
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