My three other children of college age do not live in Illinois. Each lives in a different state and none have a car. They each managed to figure out a way to get to a vaccine distribution site in order to get the vaccine. For one, her college didn’t offer any sign ups for the vaccine until a few days ago yet 42% of staff, students and faculty were already vaccinated when they finally opened their clinic, but because students made it a priority to find the vaccine elsewhere they did. Even with your son only being eligible now, there are still plenty of places for him to go that are just a short bus, train or car ride away and you have another child there that can even take him. Most people don’t even have that luxury. You may think he’s low risk as far as getting sick, etc. but he’s not low risk as far as being young person most at risk in getting the variant and passing it along to someone else. This is just one more reason why the youth need to get vaccinated as quickly as possible. By fall it will be open to 12 and up and we will hit another population. Schools btw, that are mandating the vaccine are mandating them by deadlines (ie a July date or just show proof by august to move in to a dorm or classes start etc) it’s a simple process. They’re not announcing with the expectation that students are getting vaccinated at the Universities. Especially in light of the fact that many schools are not having in person orientation.
It also doesn’t matter if your son gets Moderna or Pfizer or JNJ for that matter. Any of the three he can be done with in 4 weeks. But ultimately, if it’s a priority to him, he’ll get it if not then when he needs to get it or decides he’s ready he will. But the only way for herd immunity is to get more people to get it sooner.
Why would your son not just get the vaccine in June when he gets to the state where he is working? Why would he “likely have to wait till September” when he presumably heads back to campus? What is stopping him from getting it during the three months of summer? Nearly all states allow non-residents to get vaccinated if they have proof they are working in the state.
It’s one thing if he doesn’t really want the vaccine, but by June, there really should not be any obstacle for him to get it if he really wants or needs to get it if his school requires it.
100% also from the UC website directly they are really pushing and encouraging students to get it done before they leave campus and giving them many ways to which to go about it. Furthermore it clearly states on their site that they are still deciding whether to mandate it or not and that students need to keep a record of their vaccine information on their phone/device or in print. May 21 is last date they can get Dose 1 before leaving for the summer with Dose 2 fully vaccinated. This was updated only on Wednesday right around when the other schools here started to come out with a mandate so it sounds like the want to avoid a mandate if they can get confirmation that the majority of their students are indeed vaccinated.
Also @4kids4us this link gives many ways for the UC students to get it, including if they have been seen at UCM, going to Chicago State University, using the Chicago Vaccine Finder group which is amazing (I know many who have used it), etc.
In Chicago, the ethical thing of course was to wait for your turn because there are those of significantly higher priority who needed the vaccine first. We actually have three living on the south side (none with a car) and the two who were able to get vaccinated or start the process didn’t jump the line.
We don’t either
He’s very low risk for both, given his lifestyle choices and level of common sense during a pandemic. Neither he nor any of us should be obligated to go the extra step to get some medical procedure - in this case an injection - simply in order to protect someone else who might be more careless. What other medical procedure do you know of where that’s the case? All other vaccines - Flu, IPV, MMR, Meningitis, etc. - protect the injectee as much as everyone else from devastating illness. Covid - different story. A young healthy person is getting a vaccine that adds minimal benefit to their well being and many are feeling pressured to do so which is immoral. Short of the state mandating for public good reasons (similar to the outbreak of Smallpox in the court case we discussed earlier) no one should be compelled to get a medical treatment under pressure. Finally, per Dr. Fauci Covid policies should remain in place for the foreseeable future (unless he’s said something in the last day that I missed). My son’s already doing those with tremendous success, and that’s been his behavior during the spikes as well. That’s just common sense. An injection is not indicated in his case. Of course, he may choose one - as an adult who makes his own healthcare decisions that’s within the realm of possibilities. We don’t pressure our kids - or others - to make healthcare decisions (short of a life-threatening condition and even then it’ll depend on the circumstances, their age, etc). Agency is important.
Yes - everyone’s making their kids get vaccinated so that mom dad and grandma are safe. That’s a big backward. Traditionally we protect those who need to be protected - we don’t make everyone else undergo the same or do more just for OUR benefit. Of course, someone may choose to do that - and that’s very generous of them. When you force or compel someone to take an action, you rob them of making that choice to do good. And that’s not helpful to our society or to humanity.
Well, my son’s school hasn’t made such an announcement and I doubt they’ll do so without plenty of lead time. They will also be thorough in their explanation, as they have been for everything else about this pandemic.
JNJ is problematic for (now) a couple of reasons. If given a choice, one of the others is preferable, IMO. Ethics and personal health - not to mention the enormous debt load we are leaving our young people - should not take a back seat to being free to party w/o a mask. Remote learning doesn’t work for some but works great for others. Masks and social distancing are fine for those who choose them unless it’s something like certain sports or music practice/performance which of course require vaccination. Unfortunately, many have taken on some sort of doctrinal fervor just to make this virus go away. That’s not how viruses typically work, and this isn’t Smallpox. IMO, learning to live with the virus makes life a bit less frantic.
That is definitely a possibility! Should have mentioned that upthread. My husband didn’t think it was possible but since the last time we discussed, the number of vaccine sites and appointments have just exploded everywhere. The state he’s going to this summer may well not check your residency status and he’ll be living near a major university so I’m sure there will be plenty of vaccine sites nearby.
Young healthy people who get COVID-19 have a significant rate of long term after effects, although that does not seem to be well publicized (and is widely underestimated in risk assessments). Avoiding the risk of long term quality of life problems of COVID-19 after effects is more than a minimal benefit to one’s well being.
I’d like to see more information on this. A small sample to be sure but I know atleast 15-20 college kids who have had covid, none with any after effects. Not saying they couldn’t have them if they under went more serious medical testing but nothing affected their daily living. We can’t say with any certainty that is true of the long term effects of the vaccine because we have zero data on that. It’s more of a risk/benefit analysis for younger people in my view.
My anecdotal sample of 7 people I know who had COVID-19 is that 2 of them (that I know of) had after-effects. One of those with after-effects is a college student, and none of the 7 people are elderly.
Part of the problem is we don’t have great data on long covid yet, nor is there a comprehensive definition of long covid. Here is the wikipedia page for a starting point:
This study shows 9.9% long covid in the 18-49 age group:
I have thought about the risk benefit analysis of the vaccine for college aged kids. Considering everything that can go wrong with the immensely complex human immune system, I would prefer a vaccine to almost any disease, especially a bat virus. 6.4% of women have auto immune diseases, many triggered by viral illness. In general, post viral complications (such as ME/CFS), are far more common than vaccine complications.
I am not worried about the long term risk of vaccines because the components do not persist on the body, and the vaccine-triggered response is more reliable than the natural response.
I understand that perceived risk is different depending on point of view. My college aged kids have studied immunity, and prefer the vaccine for that reason. They also believe that they should do their part to make sure they won’t be a link in a chain of viral infections.
@ucbalumnus - this issue isn’t conclusive unless I’m missing something. We are aware of several teens and young adults who have gotten Covid over the past year (no one in our immediate family save my oldest who may have contracted in the very earliest stages of the pandemic from riding the CTA). In fact, it’s overwhelmingly the largest age group we know who has gotten the virus. Not one has had long term impacts and they and their family members have been concerned about this very issue. Not a scientific study, to be sure but more of a casual “clinical trial” perhaps. But they were also healthy with no underlying risk factors. In contrast, there are plenty of young people who suffer from obesity, diabetes, asthma, etc., all of which are known risk factors. They would surely benefit from the vaccine!
I don’t know what “widely underestimated in risk assessments” actually means so an explanation would be appreciated. I tend to rely on data rather than suppositions but I’m guessing you meant something else.
My oldest child was born just as the varicella vaccine was getting out there. In the early 90’s 4million people got chickenpox every year, thousands hospitalized but only 100-150 died. In 1995 that vaccine became widely available and because of it more than 3.5m cases, 9000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths are prevented as a result. I remember when they came out with the recommendation for the second dose due to breakthrough cases so yep we went and got the second dose. When my 3 others were born there wasn’t a second thought into getting that vaccine even though it had such a low death rate. Now it’s so rare that anyone get the chicken pox. Having this vaccine also means it’s unlikely you will get the shingles, which is you do get when you’re older as a result of having had the chicken pox can be horrific for some with lifelong side effects or worse. The impact of the varicella vaccine which is pretty recent for some of us has a far less widespread impact than the Covid 19 vaccine. Not getting it, seems to appear to be much worse than getting covid and dealing with the long term risks of covid, especially potential risks down the line when these seemingly healthy kids are 40 or 50 years old, not to mention will also be assessed at having a pre-existing illness after they’ve had covid.
Unfortunately, those being hospitalized now are younger people. The variant is spreading like crazy and it is making people sicker. We are still losing about 1,000 people a day. So while deaths and hospitalizations are down significantly for the elderly population they are up significantly for the young. Hopefully those on the fence will make the decision to get the vaccine or at least when full approval happens in a few months will make the move then.
Covid-related deaths for young people are still pretty low. the 1,000 deaths still skew to older populations. Covid does hospitalize more young people (per 100k) than something like meningitis and that will increase with the new strains. The difference is that we already have excellent protocols in place for guarding against Covid. A young person has excellent tools at his/her disposal, especially if they live on campus and are participating in testing. Someone through lifestyle choices is able to minimize the risk of Covid w/o a vaccine. Should they choose that path and a vaccine isn’t necessary for other activities, they shouldn’t be compelled to get a vaccine because they are already doing their part to prevent the contraction and further spread of Covid. There is already significant demand for the vaccine!; those who want and need it have the ability to get vaccinated. Those who decline and are being otherwise responsible shouldn’t feel obligated to undertake a medical procedure just because we are all afraid of the unknown or think it’s someone else’s responsibility to make up for our less-responsible behavior. Rather than throw up our hands and tell everyone to get vaccinated, how about we crusade against huge alcoholic social gatherings? Covid isn’t the only bad thing that happens there! JMO
Hmmm…I’m not sure if you’re just commenting here, or making an assumption that because my daughter’s school had 42% of staff and students vaccinated before the school was able to offer the vaccine that you think nearly 11,000 didn’t wait their turn, which is false. Just because a college doesn’t get instant authorization to be a vaccine site doesn’t mean that staff and students aren’t allowed and/or eligible to go elsewhere for the vaccine. Not one person in my family, immediate or otherwise skipped ahead of the line so whether you meant to imply that or not, it certainly came across as if you did. But fyi, there were numerous reasons why 5k faculty and staff were probably already vaccinated prior to the school finally getting the vaccine in. Mainly because they are in person and teachers, professors, RA’s, student tutors, research assistants, etc. all qualified in earlier groups. In Illinois my profession qualified before my elderly parents, so therefore I received the vaccine before them. My husband who is in his 60’s about 10 years old than me, only recently received his second dose because he didn’t qualify. Many college kids also qualified based on their jobs now and in the summer and there are those who also qualified based on health issues. My other daughter who got it before anyone due to the vast amount of vaccine hesitancy where she attends school, had friends who could get it based on their major. Oh and also anyone who volunteers at a vaccine administration site also moves to the front of the line to receive it, so I wouldn’t call those people cutting the line either since they’re volunteering many hours to help people. There are also waitlists all over where if you call a walmart or walgreens they will gladly take your name and call you if they have extras. Is that your definition of people who cut the line? Not how we got ours because we all waited until we were eligible, but that’s certainly not cutting the line IMO. Even today, when I took my son to a mass vaccination site they asked if I were vaccinated and after I said yes they said ok because we have extras (either Moderna or Pfizer). So what did I do with that? I posted in our local fb group that anyone who wants one should go there to get it. Our high school also has a vaccine clinic on this Friday for any kid 16 and up to get vaccinated that our school has arranged with the help of Walgreens. Again, not cutting the line. My kids are all low risk, but as I’ve seen low risk doesn’t mean no risk and we would much rather be better safe than sorry.
An injection is also NOT a medical procedure. When I think about how many kids and adults smoke or put drugs and alcohol and other toxic substances in their bodies yet we know exactly what is in the vaccine but they’re afraid to get it is ironic. The covid vaccine does protect the person getting it and protects others even more so. It adds tremendous well being to themselves and to others. Do you know anyone that has died from the vaccine personally? I didn’t think so. Do you know anyone that has died from covid? I know many. I know people who have lost parents I know someone who lost a healthy kid, (key word there healthy) I have a first cousin who was on a respirator for a month and is still have long haul syndrome. She was careful and low risk too.
Since you are mentioning Dr Fauci, then don’t ignore the fact that he is also strenuously encouraging everyone get the vaccine and why people should get them the efficacy of them and just how safe indeed they are.
So, if U-Chicago mandates the vaccine, are you and your husband going to stop donating to their alumni fund? Are you going to tell your son and younger child since they’re making you vaccinate and we don’t believe in that then don’t go there since you don’t agree with it and don’t think it’s helpful to humanity? Did your kids not go to public school where certain vaccines were mandatory? Did your son and others not have the meningitis vaccine? What about the HPV vaccine which is about helping to prevent cancer and herpes which is easily spread?
The virus is definitely here to stay but learning to live with it in this form does not have to be, because if we do not reach herd immunity then it will only mutate, and the vaccines will then be useless and the virus will breakthrough the vaccines and we will be exactly where we were a year ago and I don’t think anyone wants that.
You’re really missing the point there. People in the 20’s and 30’s that are being hospitalized are not living in college dorms and/or living on college campuses. Many of them are going to restaurants, bars traveling, going to sporting events, large group events, and most importantly not wearing masks. Wearing a masks will help tremendously, but it is not 100% effective in stopping the virus and people cannot eat with a mask on and society just doesn’t work that way sadly. I recently sat on a full plane and while of course everyone is expected to wear their masks the entire time they didn’t, and you don’t have to when you eat, so while air travel is fairly safe due to the ventilation systems it is not 100% safe.
Vaccine, masks, contract tracing, and testing, however most places are relaxing testing requirements to some degree once students are vaccinated and giving them a little more freedom.
It is very common to focus only death rates of COVID-19 when making risk assessments, while it is very uncommon to focus on the risk of long term after effects of COVID-19 when making risk assessments. It is also common among vaccine skeptics to focus on speculated long term risks of the vaccines, but ignore the risk of long term after effects of COVID-19.
As a larger portion of the population is vaccinated those protocols for reducing the spread of the virus are going to be relaxed. Colleges are not going to continue to pay for frequent testing their student population indefinitely and density in the dorms and in classrooms is going to go up. Recent polling shows that given the amount of vaccine hesitancy that exists in the U.S. you will not reach herd immunity. As those protocols become more relaxed and people start to mingle more socially anyone unvaccinated in a congregate setting like a college is going to be at increased risk for contracting Covid and with the variants of concern, more likely to experience significant side effects. The other alternative is that while all his friends are going out and about their daily social lives your son will be left living like a hermit in order to protect himself from catching Covid. How long can you realistically expect him to live like that?
