I do not have any such view. I don’t base my thoughts for what is right on my own children or my own personal experience. 2.3 million sounds like it’s about 3% of that age group, correct? That sounds about right. Some will be at risk due to underlying health issues but the large majority aren’t. And of course, that’s overwhelmingly high schoolers as well since the vaccine was just cleared for the younger crowd.
Ah thank you for the correction. Fortunately, they are a small and declining percentage of the VOC’s. B.1.1.7 seems to be what is hitting most states now, followed in the distance by P.1, unless I’ve missed something. There are other strains of course but the VOC’s are most serious.
New variants will not be able to get a foot in the door in the US if a high percentage of our population is vaccinated. We don’t know whether SARS-CoV-2 will evolve beyond our ability to tweak the vaccine. And what about the next virus? Our weapon against these inevitable zoonotic diseases is technology. If a large majority of our society does not accept the tiny risk of vaccines, we are facing far larger risks and upheavals.
I understand that not everyone sees things in this light. I am influenced by watching my DH fight infectious diseases as an MD/researcher, and by knowing people who are suffering from long Covid, including children. In my mind, we are so lucky to live in a place and time in history when we can get our children vaccinated. I don’t believe in mandating the vaccine (not enforceable in a democracy anyway) but I do think it should be highly encouraged and readily available to all.
@sdl0625 Have you or your son looked into the policy at his college? I am sure there is a procedure for exemptions. I highly doubt he would have to go beyond saying that he does not want the vaccine at this time. There are likely exceptions for people who are not neurotypical, or who have unspecified health reasons. Your son has a health reason—he feels that the health risks of the vaccine may outweigh those of the disease in his individual case.
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Experts are already saying that we won’t reach herd.
3Sail, I tend to agree with you on all of your points. My dad (now retired) was an IM specialist with knowledge of infectious disease. It’s been enlightening to hear his viewpoint. He believes that all of his grown children and probably their older (young adult) kids should get the vaccine, but he also realizes that these viruses will take their course as well. He totally believes there will be a “next time.” Recent history is indicating that. Yes, people should be highly encouraged to get vaccinated. But the vaccine is still experimental so while it makes sense for me to take that risk, it may not make sense for my 11 year old (if I had one). If/when full approval arrives, it will be a different story for many, hopefully.
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Yes, his school does have religious and medical exemptions. My impression is that they were not going to scrutinize each submission. His college is in the state of NY if that matters. Its interesting that in my home state none
of the schools are making the vaccine mandatory.
The argument the school gave me is that they have other vaccines that they require upon admission, but my argument back was that as an incoming student you have more of a choice to attend, then as an existing student that is a rising Senior.
The vaccines are not fully FDA approved, and from what I heard only the Pfizer might make it in time for the fall. (My son, when he does decide prefer the JnJ or the Noravax that is in the works, for reasons I dont fully understand from the way he describes it). To add the Covid vaccines as part of all the others that are required to Fall of 2022 and going forward makes sense to me. In the meantime encourage the vaccines and for those not vaccinated continue to test on a weekly basis or more; I would even pay for testing upcharge (as long as cost was reasonable). if that was the other choice.
Right now we are thinking of medical exemption or he will acquiesce against his values so that he can continue his education. (to note the rest of the family is vaccinated)
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Just found out that unless NY law will require everyone to be vaccinated that the university will now allow Philosophical exemptions.
Please note that I still have asked my S to get vaccinated, but it good to know he wont be a college drop out. I think the school (which is private) was looking at a large number of LOA’s or kids leaving and to rethink.
I know someone who had to get medical exemptions for their child due to some very serious allergies and bad reactions (pre Covid) and it was next to impossible, though they were ultimately successful. I can’t imagine it would be easy at all to get a medical exemption for the Covid vaxx.
If anyone has tried getting a medical exemption for Covid, I would be interested in hearing their story. Feel free to PM if you do not want to share.
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It’s quite a small number, to the extent that the procedure seems invasive as opposed to preventative and the primary protection is for others’ peace of mind, not to keep the child from harm. However, my doctor would probably disagree - and she has personal experience with her parents both being hospitalized from Covid. Her 13 year old has gotten the first dose. Not sure about her younger children.
UChicago has just mandated the vaccine for students and is considering it for the remainder of the university community. Edit to add: for Fall '21. Not sure of the deadline but it’s probably early September. One must be fully vaccinated by Sept. 27, which is the first day of classes, in order to show up on campus; however, they might have an even earlier deadline for uploading proof of vaccination.
What is a philosophical objection? Not trying to debate - I don’t understand the term. Obviously, I know what a medical exception is (vax is contraindicated medically for that specific student). A religious exception would be something specific to one’s religious indoctrination (e.g., use of fetal tissue or prohibiting any outside medical intervention). I don’t understand what a philosophical objection to vaccines means separate from that as a secular proposition. Does that mean that vaccines are against one’s values, world view or other philosophical construct?
Actually, it’s one’s “religious doctrine” not indoctrination LOL. But one can be opposed to vaccines due to the fetal tissue issue and not be part of an organized religion. That would be one reason that falls under philosophical. There are others as well and I believe they are allowed to be personal. We have the same exemption in our state. (Should add that some religions do not advocate for medical interventions in general and that would fall under “religious exemption” as well).
Some vaccines use cell lines originally derived from aborted fetuses, but not all do. A group opposed to use of such vaccines has posted a chart on the matter (pre-COVID-19): https://columbuscatholic.org/documents/2017/4/Vaccines%20and%20Alternatives.pdf
With respect to COVID-19 vaccines in the US, the J&J - Janssen uses such a cell line in production, but the Pfizer - BioNtech and Moderna vaccines do not use such cell lines in either development of production. However, such cell lines were used in testing.
I get what you are saying that the fetal tissue objection issue does not have to come from organized religion doctrine if they feel it is wrong personally.
Probably not the best example for me to give because I don’t believe that that the fetal tissue issue is really a significant source of objection from the Church. I can’t recall the medical explanation, like the COVID vax does not currently rely on fetal cells. I suppose a specific religious exception will be very rare and probably will uncontested by the school. But to say the vax is contrary to one’s philosophical values seems more indistinct and what does the student have to proffer to support why he/she thinks vaccines are against his/her values. Maybe this really means a medical “objection” (not exception) meaning that in the student’s judgment of weighing risk v. benefits, they dispute the vaccine?
D just got an announcement from her school yesterday that those who are vaccinated don’t have to wear masks on campus this summer. D is thrilled because she’s heading back for a full time internship in a couple of weeks. They aren’t allowed to require vaccinations at this point and can’t force students to report whether or not they are vaccinated, but based on surveys they know that over 80% of their campus population (staff, faculty and students) are reporting they are vaccinated. If you don’t fill out the survey and report you’re vaccinated, you are still supposed to mask and get tested weekly.
I’m curious to see how they handle vaccinations and restriction come fall. The international parents are asking on the parent board if their kids will be able to get vaccinated right when they arrive in the US. I assume the school has some sort of plan for these kids.
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That is correct that one may opt for another Covid vaccine which might be less morally problematic - I don’t know the details as to why someone would “philosophically” object to vaccines in general but I do know some who have done so. Perhaps they object to any use of fetal tissue in testing or development, or perhaps they don’t believe in invasive medicine. Not sure. Those people exist and our state exempts them from having to vaccinate.
I can only cite what is law here in my state, since that is what I’m most familiar with. MN includes a non-medical exemption which covers religious, philosophical, conscience, good reasons, bad reasons, etc. The medical exemption covers medical issues and is signed by a physician. We vaccinate so haven’t been down this road; I don’t believe in that case anyone needs to sign anything, you just fill out the form (or, in more recent years, attached a printout of the e-records). Not 100% sure how this works for non-medical, but it’s been my impression that you just tick the box and have your signature notarized. Here is the explanation for a non-medical exemption:
Get Your Non-Medical Exemption Form Notarized - MN Dept. of Health and here is the immunization form for K-12; part B covers non-medical: https://www.health.state.mn.us/people/immunize/basics/imzform.pdf
I don’t believe you are quizzed on your reasons for the non-medical exemption; the law is “parents’ beliefs” and those can be quite defined and well-articulated. Or not so much.
Another update from UChicago, this time concerning grad weekend: Based on the recent CDC guidelines as well as input from the state health dept, they relaxed the Covid rules now to allow 2 in-person guests per student at the outdoor diploma ceremonies. Masks required, fully vaxed strongly encouraged. Must agree to the Covid attestations for guests but they aren’t collecting signatures. This is welcome news for many families who were unhappy about the lack of in-person events.
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This is not a surprise, especially after Northwestern’s recent announcement. But more so, it is definitely wise considering this summer Chicago is going to have a full Lollapalooza concert with maximum fan attendance with proof of vaccine required or daily negative covid tests. So, there will be thousands upon thousands of high schoolers, college kids, and adults wandering around in Grant Park during this 4 day fest and definitely a good thing to have as many vaccinated as possible.
@annoyingmom21 I know it’s not the vaccine but regeneron one of the therapeutics used to treat Covid was tested with cells derived from aborted fetuses. I’ve never understood how people are ok with that therapy but not ok with the vaccine.
University of Chicago’s graduation is on June 9, about five and a half weeks after May 1, if we assume easy vaccine availability in the later places by that date. So someone in one of these later places who got the vaccine process started on May 1 will be fully vaccinated if J&J - Janssen or Pfizer - BioNTech, and a few days from fully vaccinated if Moderna.
Northwestern’s graduation on June 12 is exactly six weeks after May 1. In theory, someone who started the vaccination process on May 1 should be fully vaccinated by June 12.
Oh no - my oldest HATES Lollapalooze because it totally messes up her morning commute. She was so glad not to have to deal with it last year. I’ll let her know - she might want to plan her relocation earlier than usual (was thinking of end of summer . . . ).
Regeneron is used for a distinct purpose from the vaccine, which provides theoretical protection but no proof of actual protection to the person who gets it; for instance, a person who is careful in their habits - continues to wear a mask, social distance, etc. - can minimize the risk of Covid pretty well w/o a vaccine (as many of us have done over the past 14 months). However, if that careful person were still inadvertently exposed and begins to exhibit symptoms, Regeneron could very well save their life. More of an actual good than theoretical. The difference can be put very simply: everyone’s urged to get vaccinated so that we can “get back to normal.” That’s a lifestyle decision and there’s more than one way to accomplish it (vaccination is a good way, but not the only way). Regeneron reduces viral load. Not much flexibility there - you have the virus, you aren’t able to fight it well, and Regeneron does that work for you and does it quickly. Immediate problem needing immediate action. If there were something less morally problematic in testing that did the same thing - that’s obviously much better! But in the absence of such Regeneron will have to do, and there’s probably no moral conflict involved.
The in-person portion is actually June 10-14 (scheduled over several days in order to prevent crowding). Vaccines are strongly encouraged but NOT required on campus; masks and social distancing will be. This pretty much mimics the city’s own travel rules; the number of “orange” states is small right now and getting smaller. Most of the country is “yellow” meaning travelers from those states needn’t worry about Covid tests, vaccines, or quarantine. They need to wear masks and social distance. The university might have conferred with the city and all agreed that the direction was good enough to open up the ceremonies to include in-person guests, especially as they are all being held outside.