<p>Second the culture shock warning re: Rice. The university is diverse, but the city definitely leans. I heard from a Houston girl–whom I met in Austin–that Houston is significantly more conservative than Austin. Austin is more like a “Northeast” city, but UT-Austin is even bigger than UMich.</p>
<p>The problem with kids who have ultra-high stats is that they really don’t have “matches”. All of their matches are reaches, although some are reachier than others. So, yes, Duke is too competitive to be considered a match, but it’s only about half as competitive as Harvard or Yale.</p>
<p>Chicago has lots of students who care about vocal music, although no formal music performance program. There is a group called the Motet Choir that is the central institution for quality singers. They are quite good. There are also many other groups, not all of which are quite good, but all of which involve students singing and enjoying themselves. Chicago is also completely awash in policy debaters. They don’t do debate competitions in college; they save it for class. But they are EVERYWHERE, as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>As for fun going to die – that’s a legitimate litmus test. If she doesn’t get the joke, she shouldn’t go there.</p>
<p>If she’s wedded to policy…that’s going to narrow the list a LOT. Why did you even visit Brown or UChicago!!! </p>
<p>Here is a list of policy debate programs: [List</a> of College Policy Debate Programs](<a href=“http://www.wcdebate.com/7others/list-of-policy-colleges.htm]List”>http://www.wcdebate.com/7others/list-of-policy-colleges.htm) It also gives a bit of description about them. </p>
<p>If she wants to do policy…I’d recommend giving serious consideration to location. Check out the league and find out where tournaments are. It helps to go to a college which is close to other schools in the league. It doesn’t help if you have to spend 10 hours every weekend just getting to and from the tournament. </p>
<p>Also…while I don’t think you should post her record here, she should realize that she has to be VERY good indeed to have a prayer of making the team at some of these schools. If she’s really committed to policy, I think she ought to investigate how hard it is to make the team and whether she can get any course credit for it.</p>
<p>You will note that one heck of a lot of colleges folks are suggesting here do not have policy teams. If she would entertain the idea of switching to parli–which would be a big switch–she’d have more options. But if +X it is and it really is important to her, then this is the universe of possibilities (and I think at least one school where it says “confirmed prior to…08” has dropped its team.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve spent time in both cities. Austin reminds me of a smaller Chicago or Boston (during a heat wave, of course.) Houston reminds me that I’m in Texas.</p>
<p>jonri: She is not one of the top debaters in the country but that is partly because she only started on the national circuit last year when she moved to her current school. She improved exponentially and her record kept improving over the year. All year long she was ambivalent about doing debate in college and she is still not sure. But after this summer’s debate camp she realized she would probably be competitive in college and the coach convinced her that it would not take up absolutely all her time if she did. So she is factoring debate in- not yet as a requirement but as a positive factor.</p>
<p>LOL, I know CMU is not technically in the midwest, but really it’s much more like the midwest out there than the east coast. You are a stone’s throw from the Ohio border (definitely midwest), the home architecture (four square) is typical midwest, and it takes hours and hours and hours to get there. I rest my case. :)</p>
<p>BTW though I recommended Rice, mathson would not consider it even though his cousin (who has very similar interests) is there and loves it.</p>
<p>A few observations:</p>
<p>She’s unlikely to make the team at some of these schools. At others, she will make the team and after some time realize that she has become a research assistant. By that I mean the team will have perhaps 20 members per class year and fewer than half will ever compete in an outside tournament. I can’t tell you specifics because I am woefully out of date, but as a general rule, when schools give hefty scholarships for debate, kids who don’t get them rarely end up competing. It’s not impossible…but roughly equivalent to being a walk on at a school that recruits athletes. </p>
<p>If she’s willing to consider parli, she’ll have a lot more options. More parli teams are open and it sounds as if she’ll be good enough to make it even at those that are closed. Again, though, be aware that if she goes to a closed school, she might not get to debate. </p>
<p>I say all this because I’ve known kids who were state champs who were STUNNED when they got to X,Y,Z U, tried out for the team, and didn’t make it. This happens in all sorts of college ECs, but I think kids who do speech & debate and mock trial, model UN, etc. are less aware that they might not be able to continue the activity than kids who are high school athletes.</p>
<p>So, all I’m really saying is that if she wants to factor it in, she should make one component of said factoring “Would I be able to make the team if I decide I want to debate?”</p>
<p>I would strongly advise against choosing the college based on its debate program. Interests change. For some, doing debate in college feels too much like being back in HS. For others, it’s not worth the time (it is not quite like D1 varsity sports, but you do have to travel to tournaments a lot…) Most colleges don’t have policy debate for a reason - unlike parli, it takes preparation. Most college students do not have enough time for it.</p>
<p>jonri: Thanks for the input and I appreciate your word of caution and do not doubt what you say. I know what you mean by STUNNED. That is how she was on her first day of debate camp last summer- she had been a ‘top’ debater in her previous world but her new world was on the national circuit- and she found herself at the bottom. She has worked her way up and hopes to qual for the TOC this year. She knows more about the debate world than I do, and she is probably a lot more realistic than me about her options for college policy debate. I am not sure if she would go for parli or other forms of debate now that she has tasted the excitement of policy.</p>
<p>I suspect competitive debate is semi-moribund at most of the colleges she is looking at. There may or may not be a club, and in any year there may or may not be people actively engaged in it. There may be exceptions, but I’ll bet (a) most of the clubs consist of a few people and drift in and out of existence, and (b) anywhere she goes, if she can find a few other students she can start exactly the same kind of club if she wants.</p>
<p>Do any of the colleges we have been talking about actually have serious debate programs?</p>
<p>JHS: Harvard does have a very good policy team, Yale doesn’t. I believe Northwestern is one of the best in the country, UMichigan and perhaps Georgetown also have teams. But most academically top colleges do not also have top policy debate programs (see jonri’s link). As has been pointed out, she may not make the team and even if she does she may not enjoy.</p>
<p>Honestly, the debate thing is a peripheral factor, academic strength is her top concern.</p>
<p>Don’t know if anyone mentioned Fordham Rose Hll Campus in the bronx. Beautiful setting, great faculty. Fordham Rose Hill Campus
Its a lovely school, not top 50, but top 60ish. Easy access to manahattan. great academics, lots of clubs and really good alumini connections. Pretty campus, with new dorms beoing built. First two years do have a core, but its pretty varied. Its a jesuit college but religion isnt shoved at you.</p>
<p>Don’t know about debate team, but being in NYC ( and yes fordham is in the bronx but its just a short subway ride from anywhere in manhatan, there would be amazing opportunites to intern in all kinds of areas and use the debate skill in the real world)</p>
<p>I have a rising junior there who is thrilled with her education. All the schools mentioned are amazing. I like fordham because it really does have a traditional campus, but nyc is right there- best of both worlds, if you take advantage of it.</p>
<p>Has anyone said Northwestern yet?</p>
<p>If not: Northwestern!</p>
<p>Acceptance rate is only about 2.5 times that of Harvard, but otherwise it fits all of the criteria you listed.</p>
<p>If you covet being one of 6,500 students who are worldly, national- and global-politics oriented, and living on an historic campus in a trendy quasi-urban residential neighborhood three miles from a major American metropolis with subway service all over the city, you could choose either Harvard or Georgetown.</p>
<p>delete–not relevant to OP’s post</p>
<p>Case Western, Northwestern, Brandeis, BC, Georgetown…</p>
<p>Colgate–great school. student body, beautiful campus, nationally-ranked debate team (with great funding)</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>So true…</p>
<p>If you do end up loving Tufts but are worried about “Tufts Syndrome,” be sure to show them the love with a visit, communication with the adcom who will be covering your area, etc. Anything to let them know that you aren’t just using them for a back up if you don’t get into Harvard…</p>
<p>Like others, I would suggest Georgetown, BC, and Tufts. I would also like to suggest Providence College and would recommend that your daughter look at the Development of Western Civilization, which is considered the cornerstone of the PC core curriculum. It is a two year interdisciplinary program of studies that looks at history, philosophy, literature, theology and fine arts thru the ages. It is a highly-regarded program of study. My own concern about PC is the location/safety factor. Providence is an exciting city with several excellent schools, and there is a train that runs between Providence and Boston, but it is not in the best section of Providence. That being said, I have known several who have gone there and they have never had any issues regarding safety. Also, I think PC is considered a little more conservative than the three schools mentioned above.</p>
<p>I know you prefer to stay out of CA but Occidental fits the rest of the criteria</p>