<p>My daughter is a junior at a tiny arts magnet. She does well academically (3.9, 2300, NM(S?)F, AP courses). ECs: published writing (comic books, short stories), more writing (blog, club, plays performed by theater department), tutoring, work, radio (podcast, fundraisers, DJ, "apprenticeship").</p>
<p>So far, she knows she likes UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon, and Tufts. The 3k-7k sweet spot appeals to her; she's worried she would feel suffocated at an LAC and lost at a large university. She wants urban with a real campus and a real "college" experience. No extremely hot weather. No women's colleges (she's just not interested). No heavy religious ties. Nerdy is good.</p>
<p>She glossed over the Ivies, and none of them popped out at her. We are low-income, so I'm encouraging her to give them all a second look. She recently learned about Case Western and Wesleyan and likes them well enough so far. Her only safety at the moment is the state university. It's a fine option, but she really wants to leave home (it's only an hour away) and she doesn't like the size. It has no honors college.</p>
<p>Schools she decidedly Did Not Like:
Rice
WUSTL
American
Georgetown
Emory
Columbia (I thought this would be a hit, but she says she likes the community of UChicago better)</p>
<p>But… before you dismiss smaller schools, or rural schools, or large universities entirely, have you visited any yet or is she making a list based on descriptions and friends’ comments and websites, etc.? The reason I’m asking is that exactly a year ago, my son, then a junior, had basically the same criteria. He was insistent he wanted an urban setting and the college must be “bigger than my high school,” which for him is a large public h.s. </p>
<p>Now, a year later, one of the colleges he’s waiting to hear from is Grinnell, which has a student pop of about 1500 and is in the middle of an Iowa cornfield.</p>
<p>So what brought on this turnaround? We were traveling through North Carolina on spring break last year and I suggested we visit Davidson College because I knew it had an excellent reputation academically and also was on a short list of schools that don’t include student loans as part of a financial aid package. He agreed to visit because it seemed more interesting than the alternative activity for the day and he LOVED it. We had already visited Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon and Duke, all of which met his previously announced criteria, so it was quite the shock to me that his new favorite was a small college in a small town.</p>
<p>Based on that, I planned a summer road trip that included three LACs, which could now be on the table, and two urban mid-size universities that had previously been identified as exactly what he had in mind. Long story not-so-short, he has applied to all four LACs he visited and not the urban mid-sizes, except for Duke, which before any visits had been his top choice.</p>
<p>If she’s willing to consider something under 3k students, Macalester in St. Paul would be worth a look. It’s about 2k with a lovely campus in the heart of a pleasant urban neighborhood and students have the opportunity to take classes at other nearby colleges. Writing is supposedly strong there. Swarthmore, near Philly, may appeal.</p>
<p>Have you considered Brandeis? Nerdy, yes, not urban, though. But it’s not too far from Boston and I’m sure kids go into Boston for the city taste.</p>
<p>Not totally urban but semi-urban: Bates and Vassar. My DD whose list sounds like yours liked both of those as well. She also likes Tulane - but that might be too hot!</p>
<p>I expect she’ll major in English. Socially, MIT would be good, but she’s not a math/science person and the requirements are really turning her off.</p>
<p>She’s visited colleges of every size with her high school (only 200 kids). She said the lowest she would be willing to go is around 2500, and that’s with reservations. On the flip side, she didn’t like the hugeness of the state university much at all. I think she would compromise on urban vs rural as long as a big city was just a short drive away. I’ll tell her to give Oberlin a look, thanks!</p>
<p>I am pushing the Ivies hard. I think a lot of her concern is feeling too “different” from most of the students there as a low-income kid. (I’m about to go scratch up some figures for her to chew on.) Is Harvard the best fit of the lot?</p>
<p>1012mom, you’re right, Tulane is too hot (she loves NOLA, though)! She initially was really interested in Vassar, but put it on the shelf a while ago for unknown reasons. I’ll let her know about Bates and remind her of Vassar.</p>
<p>She sounds more like a Yale student than a Harvard student. Yale has always been known for the strength of its Humanities programs. </p>
<p>She should also strongly consider Pomona, which is one of the top LACs in the country, and is part of the Claremont Consortium of colleges in S Cal. It has what she wants- “urban with a real campus and a real “college” experience”. There are 5000 UG’s total between the 5 colleges in the consortium- which are all right next to each other in Claremont . Students can cross register at any of the other 4 colleges for classes their college doesn’t offer. Wonderful year round weather- warm and dry, and the small city of Claremont - nestled against the hills in northern LA - has a nice small town feel to it, but since she would be next to LA she would also have the advantages of big city life, if and when she wants it.</p>
<p>She should visit Pomona, and while she is in LA she should also visit USC, which is undergoing seismic changes these days- USC has a diverse[ whites are in the minority] intellectually engaged student body, with the largest number of NMF’s enrolled of any college except Chicago. As a NMF she would receive a 1/2 tuition scholarship if she was accepted, and USC has the largest FA program in the country. USC’s acceptance rate this year is expected to be under 19% and is becoming as hard to get into as many elite colleges.</p>
<p>Definitely try to get her to reconsider the ivies- at least, to look at them individually, and not just as a group to completely rule out. I do not think she will feel different at all, being low-income, as many many students at ivies take advantage of the full need met. Of the ivies, Brown might be a good fit-Providence is a nice town, but the lack of core curriculum could be a turnoff. Penn has a great campus feel, yet is still very urban.</p>
<p>Would Vanderbilt be too hot (sorry, don’t know Tennessee weather but do know it is south)?
How about Northwestern? It’s not exactly urban, but Chicago is a short L ride away. 8k student body is pretty close to her sweet spot, and it definitely has a real campus and experience. </p>
<p>For safeties, maybe Fordham- obviously urban, but still retains a campus feel. Also Pitt and University of Vermont.</p>
<p>She should definitely look at Brandeis, which is fairly similar to the ones on her list, but slightly easier to get into. I think she should look at Brown, Harvard, Penn and Yale which all have urban locations like the other schools on her list, but aren’t as urban as Columbia. I personally don’t think there’s much to choose from Harvard and Yale academically (I wouldn’t say science vs humanities), but different departments do have different strengths. I like Boston more than New Haven, but I like the way Yale does its residential college system better. I hated Harvard’s last version of a Core Curriculum, but don’t know enough about the current one to have an opinion. There are lots of low to middle income people at Harvard and its ilk, she shouldn’t let herself be intimidated by them.</p>
<p>She might look at some larger LACs. My younger son, with a very similar list, liked Vassar enough to keep it on his list - too bad she didn’t like it! I agree that among smaller schools Swarthmore and Oberlin are worh checking out.</p>
<p>She may really love Brown, and the lack of a core curriculum is a huge plus for many students, especially if she does not want math/science core courses. All of the ivies have significant percentages of low income students - these are very diverse environments, more than many LACs and larger universities. She should take a good look at Brown.</p>
<p>Over 60% of Harvard’s student body is receiving need-based financial aid, and I’m reasonably certain the other Ivies are hovering around that same number. The Ivies are actually all very different from one another, and those differences are worth exploring (Hanover, NH is very different from New Haven, CT, eg).</p>
<p>Make sure that she has a safety (with assured admission and assured affordability) that she likes and is academically and otherwise appropriate for her. Some of the Ivy League and other schools may be generous with the financial aid, but they cannot be considered safeties for admission reasons.</p>
<p>Second everyone’s advice that the Ivies should DEFINITELY be considered. Also strongly second Pomona, which has the consortium and great FA. I would also suggest looking at Amherst, which has very good FA and is part of the 5-college group, and at Smith, part of the same group, albeit a women’s college. Swarthmore is another nerd-friendly LAC with great FA, a consortium, and access to a big city.</p>
<p>I would suggest that she consider Barnard and Wellesley, too. Both are closely associated with coed universities, to varying degrees.</p>
<p>My concern with Swarthmore (and UChicago and JHU, though they have size and location in its favor) is that, although nerdy, my daughter isn’t into constant high academic intensity. She likes learning and I think she’s pretty intellectual. But she doesn’t do well with the constant sense of “I should be studying!” looming in the back of her mind, and she would always rather be working on her blog or making a movie with her friends or sleeping. I’m not sure that misery poker, though it made her laugh, is healthy for this particular kid. Am I overreacting to the stereotypes?</p>
<p>Anyway, we talked and came to these conclusions:
She’ll apply to three Ivies: Yale, Harvard, and Brown, with that order of preference. When she gave them a real chance, she found that Yale was pretty charming and Boston is fabulous.
Loves Nashville, doesn’t love Vandy, so probably a no. Barnard is a great school, but she doesn’t think it’s right for her.
She loves Pomona and the consortium, but she’s not sure she wants to go to California. Liked Pitzer, too.
She thinks she’ll be shooting applications to Brandeis and Fordham.
She’s undecided on Northwestern, Wellesley, and Smith. Trying to be open-minded about women’s colleges, but just really not getting excited about them.</p>
<p>Her list: CMU, UChicago, JHU, Tufts, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Pomona, Pitzer, Brandeis, Fordham, Case Western, State U</p>
<p>That is 13 schools total. We won’t be able to make any visits independent of the trips her high school goes on (regional colleges, State U and branches), so I’m a little nervous, especially since so many are reaches. Is 13 too many?</p>
<p>My kids kept it at 8 or 9, but my youngest would have applied to two more if he hadn’t gotten into Chicago EA. Personally for a high stat kid, I think a reach heavy list is okay. I think there are some good matches there. I’d like to see a safety that wasn’t just State U. (Unless she loves it.) At some point it gets hard to write good essays for so many schools. Tufts and Chicago both usually have interesting essay topics that are hard to use for other applications, but are worth putting thought into.</p>
<ul>
<li>Will she definitely get in? (not all state universities are easy to get in)</li>
<li>Will you definitely be able to afford it?</li>
<li>Will she like it, and is it academically and otherwise appropriate for her?</li>
</ul>
<p>If the answers to the questions above are not all “yes”, then you need to find a real safety that fulfills all of the above.</p>