S is a sophomore and we might be starting some college visits this summer. So we are in the early stages of putting together a list for potential visits.
I would like to ensure his list includes colleges that have a cooperative/relaxed environment, rather than a highly competitive one. He is already too much of a competitor that strives to be the top of whatever he does (grades, ECs, etc.), and if he reaches a goal, immediately adds another goal to his bucket list. So rather than continue in this almost workaholic mode, I would prefer he goes to a college with other elite students that enjoy learning, but also have time to enjoy themselves outside of class.
To provide some perspective, here are my (perhaps misguided) views about some colleges to encourage/discourage:
- Encourage Harvard, but perhaps not MIT
- Encourage Yale, but not Columbia
- Encourage Michigan, but not Carnegie-Mellon
- Encourage Duke, but not Johns Hopkins
What are other research universities and LACs I should encourage/discourage? Note that he is a STEM kid, and might be interested in engineering, so that might cut out some LACs.
To be frank, all top colleges that attract elite students are competitive. Harvard and Yale are just as much as MIT and Columbia. There is substantial overlap in the pool of students applying to each, and placement from that pool into any individual college is somewhat random. Less competitive students do not flock to Harvard rather than MIT, nor does Harvard admissions differ materially in how it evaluates applicants. These days,students admitted to any elite school had to be exceptional, and yes, usually that means competitive.
St Johns in Annapolis does give the general impresion of being a bit less crazed. But its program is not for everyone.
I don’t think I explained myself very well, @roycroftmom.
While Harvard and MIT both have exceptionally talented students, MIT’s culture is “drinking from a firehose”, to the point that students must work in groups to avoid drowning, whereas the pace at Harvard is much more relaxed. We hear from current students at both places, and the Harvard students always seem to have more free time (assuming they are not into self-punishment by taking Math 55).
I think I have a decent handle of which of the top 20 schools are in the encourage/discourage list. It is after that I could really use other people’s perspectives, particularly with LACs.
A STEM kid is going to find MIT waaaaay more fun than Harvard.
I think I understand, but the atmosphere is, in my experience, much more dependent on major than college. CMU is stressful for computer types, but the art kids I know there are relaxed and happy. Engineering is not known to be particularly relaxed at most schools.
He’s much more of a math kid right now, than an engineering kid. I expect his major will be either math or some type of applied math (such as Statistics, Economics, or CS). If he sticks with those, then a lot of LACs open up. But of course, all this can change.
You want a more relaxed atmosphere, but what does he want? A kid who is competitive and almost workaholic in high school isn’t going to suddenly become a mellow laid back kid looking for relaxation in college, regardless of which college he attends.
Reed, Grinnell, Carleton would fit the bill - top notch students but down to earth/laid-back, even if they can be intense about what they’re studying.
How about Vanderbilt? It emphasizes collaboration rather than competition among students. It has been ranked the happiest student body by US News 3 times out of the last 4 years (the the one was ranked second).
Brown seems like a good atmosphere for your son. I am not overly knowledgeable about the Math department, but I think it is very strong. The only possible negatives I have heard are about the larger, intro Calculus classes. My guess is students who get through Calc BC in HS and score well on the AP exam can bypass that. And Applied Math – which its own department at Brown – is stellar. One of the more popular majors at Brown.
Rice also would be a good choice.
For LACs, Williams also has a great Math dept, though much smaller and rural. Or Bowdoin, though the course selection in Math may be more limited. Amherst also, and that has UMass through the consortium if graduate courses are needed.
I know my tippy top perfectionist lad really enjoyed the University of Rochester. When we went there to watch his performances (juggling, dance, and his senior “show” performances with multiple groups performing) there were oodles just like him - thoroughly enjoying their classes, research, & extra curriculars. Their majors and what they were heading to after graduation were rather impressive - as was watching “smart” kid be kids doing things they enjoy.
FWIW, he didn’t start juggling or dance until going to college. He picked up both there - very welcome as a newcomer. He juggles fire (and knives and more “regular” stuff) now.
I more or less expect this happens at many schools and isn’t just available at a few. What makes a difference is whether the students want to get out there and join things.
If you are making judgments of Johns Hopkins based on hearsay or stereotypes, you should try to get the real story. The students there collaborate a lot, and the school has various programs to encourage it, such as the PILOT program for introductory science and math courses, where students take turns helping their classmates to learn the material, and a heavy emphasis on working together in design teams in the engineering curriculum.
Wesleyan has a minor in Design and Applied Sciences that would keep the engineering option open post-graduation. The STEM departments are small compared to unis, but, peaky in their own right and highly collaborative. I also recommend Brown.
Rice is great for STEM kids and has the best quality of life per the Princeton Review. http://futureowls.rice.edu/home.aspx
Ultimately it will be his choice. For example, he is already involved in activities at MIT, so I know he will apply there. I just want to introduce places he may not have thought of.
I think Haverford would be a good option. Relatively relaxed, cooperative atmosphere, excellent sciences/math, and a 4-1 engineering program (with Penn) in case your son decides by junior year he wants an engineering degree.
Vanderbilt, Rice, and Duke are on my encourage list. I saw the first two with my D when it was her turn, and we both liked them.
My wife is currently pretty adamant that Brown is NOT on the list. She has two close relatives that went there, and because they are massive screwups, she is irrationally convinced that Brown made them that way. This will be a bit of a project for me to change that opinion.
I second Vandy. D who is very competitive, and wants to near the top , chose Vandy over MIT and U Chicago. I asked her just over the weekend again how she reflects on her decision. She is very happy there and confident that she made the right choice…Vandy provides her with the balance of ECs and leadership she also enjoys.
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