Colleges With Great Computer Science, Economics, Public Policy, and Psych Programs

[bclintonk]

<p>

@goldenboy8784

But let me guess, Michigan fares better in US News so by default it trumps all other rankings which are considered more authoritative like the NRC right?

</p>

<p>Umm . . . read what I wrote, goldenboy.</p>

<p>

I think you need to take all these rankings with a large grain of salt, but I think it’s particularly disingenuous to cherry-pick them and report only the rankings that reflect most favorably on a particular school.

</p>

<p>Don’t attribute to me positions I don’t hold. That’s as intellectually dishonest as cherry-picking the rankings.</p>

[hahalolk]

<p>It sounds like Princeton is a perfect match for what you want - I think it’s a top 5 school for every single subject you listed. Certainly for CS, Economics, and Public Policy, and I’m pretty sure for psychology as well. </p>

<p>Also, the Woodrow Wilson school is no longer a “competitive” major, so if you want to major in it, you can as long you have the pre-requisites!</p>

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@Alexandre

That’s what most of us have been saying, but you are one of the few on CC that insists that the USNWR ranking of colleges, which are far greater in number and therefore harder to separate, is accurate and beyond reproach. I suppose if it serves your purposes, the USNWR is accurate, but otherwise, it is too “linear”.

Alexandre, I think you’re confusing me with someone else; I’ve never advocated that the USNWR undergraduate rankings were meant to be interpreted literally. If you look at the actual scores assigned to various universities, you will find that HYP are far in front with a sharp drop to Columbia, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Penn, and Dartmouth followed by another small gap that leads us to Northwestern, JHU, Wash U, etc. This difference isn’t notable however so its appropriate to group Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Northwestern, JHU, etc. together. If we’re comparing the #4 college to the #25 school on the ranking however, that’s when there’s a clear difference and school is “clearly better”. </p>

<p>The U.S. News Ranking director Robert Morse was recently interviewed by Duke University’s newspaper The Chronicle and here’s what he had to say regarding how the rankings should be interpreted:</p>

<p><a href=“http://m.dukechronicle.com/article/us-news-rankings-editor-talks-duke-recent-trends#/article/us-news-rankings-editor-talks-duke-recent-trends[/url]”>http://m.dukechronicle.com/article/us-news-rankings-editor-talks-duke-recent-trends#/article/us-news-rankings-editor-talks-duke-recent-trends&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If I were a senior, I would use them depending on how much I achieved in high school and my academic profile…. Let’s assume that I wasn’t a top performing student with only passing interest in the rankings… The scope of where I go may be limited to regional universities, and it would be smart to look at the data and get some conception. But I probably wouldn’t be that focused on the rankings. If I had really top credentials, I’d probably care about the rankings. But I’d want them to be just one factor. Hopefully I wouldn’t make my decisions just based on the rankings.</p>

<p>The fact that Duke has been able to stay in a relatively narrow range of the top-10 schools shows its consistency over the years. Certainly the third place [in 1997] is a peak, but I’m not sure why. It’s hard to make the top 10, from a statistical perspective. When your numbers are that high with retention or your classes sizes are so small, it’s hard to have that much higher of a reputation. Thus, schools in the top 10 maintain it, and it’s very difficult for a school in the 20th range to break into the higher ranks.</p>

<p>There are lot more reporting requirements for public schools. There are many reports that they have to file for the state. At the federal level, if you received Pell Grants, you have to do mandatory filings. The private schools don’t have to do that…. [The University of Illinois College of Law], which is a public school, was falsifying data. The recent ones related the U.S. News rankings, such as Emory, Claremont McKenna and Iona University, have been all private. In general, institutions are betraying themselves if they preach high ethical standards. But there are individuals in the process, and they—for whatever reason— may not have those standards. Some of this is human weakness.</p>

<p>There are only slight differences in schools in the top 10. There are meaningful differences between a school that’s ranked 10 and 25. If you’re getting between 10 and 15 places, you’re getting a meaningful difference.</p>

<p>The most pertinent quote from the editor himself is the last one. Robert Morse states that there is a meaningful difference between #10 Dartmouth and #25 UCLA.</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>

@goldenboy

I’ve found that US News puts too much weight on the past reputation of a field of study at a university and what high-ranking figures in the field think rather than considering important variables like Student Outcomes and Research Productivity. A lot of older faculty members in a certain subject area are unlikely to change their mind about a school’s reputation at a rate fast enough to keep up with the actual advances that said department has undergone in terms of boosting its faculty strength and graduate placements.

Funny though that the NRC took 10-12 years to compile new rankings, so you can’t assume that’s very current either. It may be a romantic vision of mine, but I believe the profs and deans filling out the reputation surveys know what is going on with latest research and faculty in the top departments.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>"The most pertinent quote from the editor himself is the last one. Robert Morse states that there is a meaningful difference between #10 Dartmouth and #25 UCLA. "</p>

<p>Naturally. If Morse did not say that, he would essentially be saying that the USNWR is meaningless. The point is, can one differentiate between universities at the top levels or not? Unfortuntely, Morse cannot address an all-important fact. He blindly uses data given to him by universities. As we have seen in recent months, universities have lied about the data they have sent the USNWR. Until the data that go into the USNWR are 100% validated for accuracy (admissions data) and consistancy (e.g. student:faculty ratios with or without graduate students), the USNWR is not a reliable source. </p>

<p>And even if data were validated for accuracy and consistency, the USNWR methodology is very flawed and skewed in favor of private universities in ways that do not measure academic or institutional quality, or account for differences in financial and operational between public and private universities. </p>

<p>In other words, the rankings are not that useful. I would agree, however, that there is a meaningful difference between #10 Dartmouth and a private universities in the mid 20 as private universities report data in a similar fashion and have similar operational and financial systems.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>"…you will find that HYP are far in front with a sharp drop to Columbia, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Penn, and Dartmouth…"</p>

<p>Once again the delusional Duke graduate thinks his school is in the same league as Stanford and MIT.</p>

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@bclintonk

Don’t attribute to me positions I don’t hold. That’s as intellectually dishonest as cherry-picking the rankings.

So, everytime I make a statistical claim I’m supposed to back it up with each every single source that exists out there that could be pertinent to substantiating it instead of just picking one? I consider the NRC to be more authoritative than the USNews but I will resort to using the latter if the former doesn’t measure the school in the subject I’m interested in researching. You are welcome to dispute my position that the NRC is a more useful tool to measure doctoral programs than the USNWR but otherwise you can’t accuse me for “cherrypicking” ranking systems when I consider one to be superior.</p>

[steve1sterling]

<p>I hate how all these threads on CC always lead to dumb arguments. Come on guys! Anyways, thanks again for more help!</p>

<p>

You need to apply to schools with varrying levels of selectivity. Once you have acceptances on the table, your parents and you can decide which university is best for you.

Absolutely, but I am trying to figure out what schools I want to apply to next year.</p>

<p>

Let me guess – you live in the northeast? Because that is where most of the posters who seem to think “private is always better than public” seem to be from.

Well, originally and my parents both are. I live in the south and my state public university is decent, but not a Berkeley of Michigan. So, for me, a Berkeley or a Michigan would cost the same price as a private school. </p>

<p>

I would definitely go to Princeton if you can based on your goals. If that doesn’t end up being an option though, I wouldn’t hesitate to choose Duke over Brown or Penn or whatever if you feel like the school is a better fit in the other areas that matter: social life, environment, class sizes, sports, etc.

Princeton would be awesome, but I doubt I could get into the top top schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, or Stanford. I think I have a shot at schools like Penn and Duke, though. How is Penn’s CS program? Do you think a company like Google recruits there?</p>

<p>Also, have you heard the Penn is cut-throat? In addition, a concern I have about Penn is that if I ultimately decide to major in econ and go into business I will be overshadowed in school and through the eyes of employers by people in Wharton? Is that true? Are the non-wharton econ majors at a disadvantage compared to econ majors at a school like Duke?</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Post a new thread with your questions about Penn to get more Quaker eyes to answer.</p>