St Andrews just came top in the Times ranking of UK universities (above Oxford and Cambridge). It’s small and therefore ultra-competitive for domestic Scottish students because they don’t have to pay tuition fees. So you have a mixture of tippy-top local students and less accomplished fee payers who subsidize them. I expect it’s pretty hard for those Americans to be at the top of the class.
Our neighbor’s kid (bunch of 5s on APs, 1540 SAT) might have done OK without the pandemic (especially with extra time granted for tests because of ADHD), but trying to keep up remotely given the time zone differences really screwed everything up completely.
The thing about Iowa State is that engineering is a bit of a weed-out environment. The programs are not super hard to get into but are hard to get through. Probably the kind of school where the OP’s son ending up in an alternate major is more than likely, so I’d choose it only if his alternate major choices are truly desirable. If there are engineering tech or other majors he likes, all good, but if the goal is to succeed at engineering, he’d probably do better at a school where washing out of engineering isn’t normalized.
Indeed. Same with Cal Poly. You’re missing the point though. Those majors were added to what started at a polytechnic institute. VT for example was founded in 1872, but the school of business, later to be named Pamplin, didn’t start until 1961. The OP was using the term “Polytechnic” to describe a major. Polytechnic is not a major. It is a type of institution, that may then have morphed over time.
I was responding to your assertion that “at all other schools with the term polytechnic in the title, they are primarily full blown engineering schools with few if any other majors.”
That’s misleading and I was just pointing out one example.
I meant Polytechnic as the collection of majors within the Purdue Polytechnic Institute or any such collection of majors at other universities.
Yes, engineering wash out schools are not an ideal situation. I know that Purdue’s GPAs are lower than average (say 3.0) and Texas A&M now requires a 3.75 to be guaranteed your first choice major. I suspect Wisconsin is challenging as well but we’ve heard a lot about how innovative and nurturing Purdue is. Does anyone know which schools have the greatest drop out rate in engineering?
The tech end of business sounds like it could be great for him, especially at a school like SMU where business is a strength.
If the URI program appeals to him, it’s worth noting that they have an International Business program with the same 5 year dual-degree model. The major options include a supply chain major that is probably similar to the SMU major you’re looking at - lots of business analytics in the coursework: https://web.uri.edu/advising/files/Supply-Chain-Management-2021.pdf This seems like it could be a great degree to do internationally, although whether it’s worth the price differential vs SMU in your case would be a big question.
As far as engineering majors (just looking at the URI info because it’s in a convenient format - the same is true at many schools), the option that tilts toward business is Industrial/Systems Engineering. Looking at the curriculum sheets, the first year coursework is the same for Computer Engineering and for Industrial and Systems Engineering except that Industrial/Systems specifically requires Econ rather than a second unspecified GenEd. Calc, Chem, Physics, and Engineering Foundations are the same. But it forks off from there.
Computer Engineering: https://web.uri.edu/engineering/files/CPE-Class-of-2025.pdf
Industrial/Systems Engineering: https://web.uri.edu/engineering/files/ISE-Class-of-2025.pdf
Re: engineering tech programs, the way to combine this kind of education with a “wanderlust” component would be to study Marine Engineering Technology at TAMU Maritime. The Department of Marine Engineering Technology - Texas A&M Galveston, TX The Merchant Marine License Option program through the TAMU Maritime Corps of Cadets (not a military program - ROTC is a separate option) includes travel around the world via three terms at sea. Not for everyone, obviously, but a great program at a great price, when it’s a fit.
Most Polytechnic majors at most universities are not technician majors. Purdue Polytechnic is the only school I’ve ever heard of that uses that term in its title, but only offers technician degrees.
Nurturing would not necessarily be the word I would use to describe Purdue engineering. It’s no joke to get a 3.2 GPA to guarantee first choice major (and that isn’t overall GPA, that’s a 3.2 engineering index so only counts engineering, math, and science classes). While the vast majority of students manage to successfully transition to major (it was 94% when my D was an incoming freshmen a few years back), it is a lot of hard work.
That said, there are a ton of academic supports - help rooms for each intro course, free tutoring in every dorm, professor office hours, TA office hours, exam review sessions, etc… But, it is all student initiated and kids have to be willing to avail themselves of all the supports and ask for help. (We told our D to go to everything she could, even if she thought she knew what she was doing).
My recollection of doing 15 college tours is that most schools have the same kind of supports. It’s in a schools best interest to make sure their students graduate in 4 years and find success.
As an example of Polytechnic being confusing Kansas State just announced they are changing the name of Kansas State Polytechnic to Kansas State University Salina Aerospace and Technology Campus with the following majors undergrad
Applied Business and Technology
Aviation Maintenance Management
Computer Systems Technology
Digital Media Technology
Electronic and Computer Engineering Technology
Machine Learning and Autonomous Systems
Mechanical Engineering Technology
Professional Aviation
Professional Pilot
Robotics and Automation Technology
Social Work
Unmanned Aircraft Systems Design and Integration
Unmanned Aircraft Systems Flight and Operations
Very interesting. It’s like the U of Houston example with some disparate specialties, like social work?, but a strong aviation focus. I’ve heard of Colorado and OK State aviation – and UAH/Embry-Riddle of course – and now see some strong offerings at KSU for people I know.
And that’s in Salina, KS. I believe that’s the town my owner said is chock full of incredible talent working on some cutting edge research with rising property values.
It’s really all semantics from back in the day when schools that offered largely technical majors called themselves Polytechnic, …School of Mines, …Institute of Technology, etc. They have all broadened their offerings. Some that were “Polytechnic,” and still are technically, long ago dropped the name. Virginia Tech is a great example. Others now want to add it as a matter of cachet. Humboldt State, becoming the third Cal Poly for instance. Again, it’s just a institution name, not a major.
Virginia Tech is still formally Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. Virginia Tech is the less formal nickname that the school has adopted. The formal name is still on diplomas.
Husband graduated from Carnegie Mellon but his dad graduated from Carnegie Institute of Technology so names definitely change.
Missing this salient point, you seem to be wanting a semantics battle regarding what is a non sequitur from the point I was making…that polytechnic is not a major.
I did not say that it is no longer Virginia Polytechnic Institute. I said they changed how they refer to themselves. The helmet says VT. The website is vt.edu.
Since we are way far off track, the OP understands the distinction, and has even figured out that neither engineering nor engineering technology, at a polytechnic institute or not, are great majors for his son, we can probably quit beating this dead horse.
But you did not clarify anything about what you meant. You said they were still “polytechnic” but long ago dropped the name. They did not drop the name, they adopted a well recognized nickname. Your wording just seemed a little unclear for those not familiar with VT and wanted to clarify the issue .
I never said or implied that “polytechnic” was a major. You seem to be confusing me with someone else.
That is essentially the theme of the whole thread. The OP was looking for schools that had “polytechnic” majors, when they were actually meaning engineering technology. In explaining the term, polytechnic, you took us down this semantics rabbit hole in defending VT as not being unidimensional, which of course, it is not. Now before the moderators shut us down, I’ll agree to just shut up.
One of the coolest programs I’ve run across is Industrial Technology and Packaging at Cal Poly. It combines supply chain management and the art/science of package design. Calculus and Physics are required, but the Calc course can be the one all business majors take (easier than the engineering/math major version) and the Physics course is Algebra based, not Calc based.
Cal Poly’s is the one I’m most familiar with, but there are a few others too. Interestingly, it’s one of the easier admits at Cal Poly. A link with the all 15 schools is below.
Thanks for a potential entry point into Cal Poly and one with manageable calculus and physics. I’ll ask him to look at the site.
Otherwise, we attended a Cox Business admissions open house at SMU this morning. I had suggested the Data Analytics and Supply Chain major. The presenting professor nearly put us both to sleep. After hearing that engineering requires Calc III, Diff Eq and multiple physics courses, he says he likes real estate business. Why? It just sounded good and I’ll have a better shot of getting into Purdue in business. Good thing he didn’t apply in August.
