@collegemomjam, Penn is definitely a gritty campus by elite university standards. Just like the city it’s based in. Going from manicured Duke to gritty Penn was a little unsettling but I got used to it pretty quickly 
Two schools without a single flaw in terms of landscaping and cleanliness are Elon and Richmond. Some like that others would find them too sterile. I actually liked them.
My husband doesn’t want full price private schools with perfect lawns. He doesn’t want to feel like that’s what we are paying for. Wants the money to go towards academics. Bring on the cigarette butts! lol.
If you want scary clean and an “Up With People” vibe to go with it look no further than High Point.
One of the things I liked about both Mt Holyoke and Smith-Historic feel, old beautiful buildings (mostly)…if these walls could talk feel…yet tidy and nicely kept. Like someone who cares dearly for their old home.
@Sue22 OMG ‘Up With People’ I’m dying laughing. I know some people love HPU, but it was over the top for me. I have said before if Stepford and Disney mated and had a college, it would be High Point,.On the other hand, the pristine campus of Elon doesn’t bother me. I’ll admit, no rhyme or reason.
Touring U of Richmond in a few weeks - I’ll report on whether it is ok or too fake clean. LOL
Richmond is pristine in a Stepford kind of way.
@TwinMom2023 Disney and Stepford were my other two references as I described High Point to my husband! It felt like HPU took a lot of good ideas then took them each too far, advancing into freaky territory. Fountain? Nice, but do you really need a dozen? Statues of inspirational figures? Sure, but on every bench? Concerts? Yay! But, um, by Jesse McCartney? Who are your students, 12 year old girls? Gated security? Good to know your kid will be safe, but when I asked if community members ever use college facilities (tutoring local kids, dog walking through campus, senior summer classes, etc.) one tour guide saw my disappointment that there was no on-campus town-gown interaction and answered that the school puts on a Christmas event for the community but then the other added, “but that happens after we all leave for Christmas break so no one’s here!”
A kid who grew up in High Point told my D that over Christmas HPU decorates the town with fake snow – and, wait for it – that it’s HPU purple! Ack!!
I was surprised to hear Penn described as “gritty”; to me, it’s more glossy. But whatever…
High Point is very cult-like. One of the recent mailers from them included a VIP Open House Card that would “guarantee VIP seating in the Hayworth Fine Arts Center to see President Nido Qubein. This way you won’t have to watch from an overflow location in a different campus building.”
Seriously, WTH???
Richmond is very manicured and I liked it a lot. DD wasn’t as enthralled and preferred GWU’s style of city-ish grit.
I have been resisting Richmond this entire process, but with a deferral from Twins B’s ED (ouch), we have to
expand. I need to go in with an open mind - working on it.
Why resisting Richmond @TwinMom2023 ? We also took it off our list but I’m curious why others may pass it up.
I loved Richmond for what it’s worth.
@homerdog - I think it might be too conservative for my super liberal Twin B and I struggle with the spider. Seriously, that is a stupid reason I know!!
My family loved the well maintained buildings and grounds at U Richmond.
I am always impressed by immaculate highways, parks, libraries, hospitals, religious and government buildings etc.
Why would a university be any different?
Dead landscaping, party trash, peeling paint, cigarette butts, urine in stairwells, grafitti…a definite turn-off.
(Yes, we have observed all of the above at many campuses.)
The Spider took a little getting used to but my seriously arachnophobic D20 wears her Richmond hoodie with a large spider very prominently displayed at least once a week to school.
The simplicity and the symmetry of the Richmond spider logo kind of grows on you.
@dragonmom3 Thank you so much.Truly Richmond seems to be very well liked! It’s only 2 1/2 hours from home and is climbing in the rankings. I’m doing some research this morning and it is already growing on me. If your daughter can deal with the spider, I’m sure we can. Is the town area cute/safe? Honestly we never go to Richmond, it’s just a city we pass on the way to D.C. Time to expand my horizons. 
I loved Univ of Richmond, but was not a fan of the city. After our tour we went to the famous Cary St for lunch. It’s cute, but I was literally stopped by 4 or 5 panhandlers asking me for money. That really turned me off. I live in a major city and that doesn’t usually happen to me.@twinmom2023
@citymama9 That sucks. I don’t think I’d be a fan either. For us, we’ve been there five or six times and haven’t encountered any of that.
@TwinMom2023 I’m probably a shameless UR supporter but we love the school and see the city (which we also drove past for years without stopping) as a humongous asset. The campus is in the leafy suburb west of town, but the awesome little Carytown neighborhood is very close and the rest of the town not much further. Fantastic museums, public spaces and historical sights abound. Our sophomore son is in town a few times a month for record stores, coffee shops and burgers. As for us, we feel that there’s so much city to see and not enough years to see it. Though that said, no fifth year, son. Please.