I admit I’ve done this when visiting one of my kids at college but I always told the kid coming out of the door who I was and who I was visiting, including the room number. I agree that I wouldn’t be comfortable with a prospective family sneaking into the dorm, nor would I be comfortable doing it on a school visit.
"Again, obviously be considerate and keep it short, and respect their privacy— a quick glance around is sufficient to give you an idea of the dorm room’s size and condition. "
You’re ok respecting their privacy once you’re in the dorm, but not respecting their privacy when you sneak in?
“Harvard dropped way down the list from a recent tour.”
Did they get dropped down the list or off the list (what the OP asked)? If they’re still on the list then yes they really don’t have to do much to get the applications they need.
“Add me to the chorus of people who like to see a dorm room, a dining hall and a classroom on every tour.”
I generally agree with you, especially if you can eat at the dining hall, depending on how much the guest fee is. However seeing a classroom, esp if there are students there, is going to be tough without disrupting the class. I saw a classroom one time, but it was in between classes so the next class hadn’t started but it was like a 500 person lecture hall. You could use that as a factor in making the decisions, but the upper classrooms were much smaller.
Probably off. It’s way early and I think they were already on the list due to reputation. Looking to be a CS major, as she does more research I think she’ll realize there are better options and she’s not very big on status, branding, reputation, etc.
I don’t think they’ll miss one in their flood of tens of thousands, many of which would also not be a good fit.
If I were traveling 100+ miles too visit a school and seeing a dorm was that critical, I’d call ahead of time and make arrangements. You really aren’t owed anything by the school - if you feel insulted by a “no” then take the school off your list.
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Moderator’s Note:
There has been a cascade of posts about dorms and I think it’s really been beat to death. I really don’t want to comb through the posts to try to drag them all to a separate thread. Some people think seeing dorms is important, some not. Can we just move on now?
Thanks
Still on the list
Middlebury- Daughter loved it! She and her dad visited in January. He thought they would be stuck there til spring due to a snowstorm. She didn’t want to leave.
Kenyon - Daughter loved it! She felt right at home. The coach she was there to visit went above and beyond to show her everything. Beautiful athletic facilities on hog warts style campus. She attended a class.
College of Wooster- excellent tour, great admissions staff, great coach and team visit. Students are happy, say hello, very positive energy. Beautiful buildings. Excellent athletic facilities.
Oberlin - daughter liked the campus and the tour. Coaches were great too. Students were happy. Nice vibe.
Not too excited about:
Smith College - even though tour was booked and confirmed admissions staff never met with us and scrambled to get us a tour guide. It was early September but no-one seemed happy. Campus had a very strange vibe…no smiling faces. Coaches were very nice but both my daughters were meh about this school.
Colby College - unfortunately the tour was very short and my daughter was left with the vision of run down buildings and nothing much to be excited about. I understand that it’s a great school but she wasn’t impressed. Coaches were great though.
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My kid did an overnight at Smith this week. The house she stayed in had chosen a “guests of any gender must be accompanied between floors and are restricted to using only the designated guest bathroom” rule - even as a prospect spending the night, she didn’t get a glimpse inside the main bathroom of the house. I did a tour of a different house with different rules, and saw the (large, bright, airy, and spotlessly clean) bathroom on the floor the tour guide lived on. She really liked that the level of privacy was chosen by the residents.
I walked over to collect her overnight stuff so she didn’t have to carry it around campus the rest of the day, and waited on the house’s front porch for her to come out. It didn’t take long for someone to come ask what I was up to, and even after I explained myself, I was not invited in. My kid liked that, too - that the house was a house, not a semi-public building.
Smith moved up enough that she’ll be applying ED1. Not perfect in every way, but she’s concluded no school would be, and that Smith is the best fit for her.
Had a student on our Cornell tour who was wearing a UC Berkeley hoodie and Stanford sweatpants. So he had color matching issues, along with the school issues.
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S1 asked me to purchase him a shirt from S2 school when I was there a couple weeks ago.
S2 has a big flag from S1’s school decorating his room. It’s actually kind of a rival in his sport, but I’m pretty sure for all other sports he’s cheering for S1’s school (they only really compete with each other in that one sport).;He grew up a fan, and is still a fan. I’m guessing he gets a little bit of flack from his teammates for having a big flag for that school up on his wall though!
Colleges crossed off after college visits:
Haverford - too small, dining center was like an old ski lodge (may be appealing for some but was different than what D20 wants)
Harvard - the students who participated in the information session talked a lot about the culture of being ‘overscheduled’ on campus. The campus itself was also noisy with lots of construction and many people walking about
Catholic U. - campus did not speak to D20 at all
Northeastern - very quaint campus but it was too quiet (I know - we complained about the noise at Harvard - obviously a good middle ground is desired). Also, they do not let visitors in the library and the student/dining center reeked of old cheese
University of VA - D20 did NOT like the plantation-style architecture of the campus. There was also a burned out hotel near the campus that threw the energy off
Colleges that moved up after college visits:
University of Georgia (not applying) - a pleasant surprise, as the campus felt far more intimate that expected for a state school
American University (applying) - a very pleasant surprise, as my husband is a B-School alum, is from D.C. and I also went to undergrad in DC. Neither of us remembered anything special about American but they have done a lot of work on the campus and D20 liked it a lot.
Emory (applying) - beautiful campus that really resonated with D20. Seemed to be just the right size and she appreciates the pre-med emphasis.
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I’ll get back on topic, and apologies for participating in the side discussion.
Just completed a bit of a whirlwind trip to Hamilton, Rochester, Cornell and Bryn Mawr. Also did quick drive through looks at U Penn, Haverford and Colgate. This is my summary of what we learned.
Hamilton - Down, but staying on the list for now as a dad pick.
Went on a cold dreary day, They skies were grey, it was misting, and they were on fall break. I knew that was a mistake, but it was the only time we could get there and on paper I thought Hamilton would probably be her #1. Our flight was very delayed, we didn’t land at Newark until after 2:00 am., which is not near Hamilton. Decided to sleep a few hours, so we didn’t get to the info session, just the tour. Literally just us and the tour guide. Which was actually nice, he did a good job and we were able to have a conversation with him for an hour. But it didn’t help the perception that it was a ghost town.
She likes the open curriculum. A lot, that’s probably her #1 priority. Otherwise the tour was a bit rough. She knows the weather was awful, so the few people who were still on campus during the break were probably huddled up in a room watching movies and not wandering around campus. But it was still hard to shake the fear that at a school this small she might not find her people. The cafeteria we saw was really small, although it wasn’t the main one I think. Just overall she is not sold on the small campus. Not necessarily ruling it out, but I thought it would be a priority for her and it is not. Even more so she is worried about the lack of a town.
Colgate - Neutral.
We just dropped into the visitor center and they gave us a map and a bit of guidance. Then we did a brief look around. Overall she liked the campus better, it seemed more logically laid out, although I think that at most places after a couple of weeks that doesn’t really matter. We went into the town for ice cream afterwards. Cute little town, but the same concerns that it is too isolated. Again, even though there were more students out and about since they weren’t on break, it was in the 40’s, windy and raining off and on. No one was out walking around unnecessarily so it felt kind of lonely.
Cornell - Down? It was in the like not love catergory before, and probably stayed there.
We were staying in Ithaca so Friday morning before heading to Rochester we hit the CALS info session at Cornell, which was just awful. Daughter described it as “5 slides, and she talked for 20 minutes about each one”. It was only an hour, but the 5 slides was correct and it certainly felt like it was 2 hours long. There was maybe 3 minutes of info I couldn’t get on the website, the rest was unnecessary.
Went back Saturday for the actual tour and general info session. This was much better. Both were too big, because they inexplicably have few tours and info sessions, so the ones they have are very crowded and logistially more difficult than they should be. But they did a good job with both of them. The admissions officer talked about the importance of fit, and said every year someone misspells Cornell as H-A-R-V-A-R-D in their “Why Cornell” essay, which is a great way to show that there isn’t a fit between you and the college.
Campus is big, and somehow uphill both ways everywhere you go. I think there is something for everyone here. But flexibility isn’t really one of their strong suits. They talked about being undeclared in CAS, and I know that you can apply to change colleges or majors if you need to, but I just feel like if you don’t have a pretty good idea of where you want to be going Cornell might not be a good fit. Just like how she thought Hamilton might be too small, she thought Cornell might be too big.
Rochester - Up. This was the big winner for her.
Felt like the Goldilocks size, not too big, not too small. Honestly it helped that our tour guide was pre-med, seemed super nice and like she was just slightly socially awkward in a nerdy but endearing way. In other words, she seemed like someone my D would hang out with. The info session was very interactive and around a conference table. The admissions officer used D and her interests to show the group how the Rochester Curriculum works, and said they even had students from her home state when he talked about how they have students from everywhere. I know it’s not a true open curriculum, but for her interests it won’t matter, she would be hitting the 3 clusters anyway. It is a beautiful campus. Feels like it was built all at once. Cornell I think has more naturally beauty to work with, but the buildings don’t have a consistent look, and in my opinion some are a lot more attractive than others.
Seems like lots of volunteering and research opportunities that easy to get to. She loved the tunnels. Just overall she seemed to like everything.
Bryn Mawr - Down, probably off the list, and may have killed chances for other women’s colleges too
Beautiful old campus my wife and I loved. D was on the fence about it, and said the buildings all smelled funny. Wife has a sensitive sense of smell and is pretty picky about smells, and didn’t pick up any off odors. D was a bit concerned again about finding her people.
The current student who was part of the info session would probably be a good fit with D, but the tour guide was not. D is liberal, but not a SJW and she doesn’t really like them either. Tour guide thought it was great that Bryn listened to it’s students and took the name of the first female president of the college off of the library, because she only admitted rich white women. Apparently 100 years ago she should have had the foresight to admit more minorities and poorer students. Just lots of little things like that which made my daughter wonder if she would find her group there. She felt like it looked like there were a lot of weird students, but again I think that may have been tainted a bit by the fact that she was not clicking with the tour guide. That’s really her biggest negative, just not sure she would fit in there.
Pretty concerned about the size, and not ruling out Women’s colleges but leaning towards no. Loved the neighborhood it was in.
Haverford - Wasn’t really on the list, but we stopped by since we were right there. Didn’t want to get out of the car, I think because feeling pretty negative about Bryn.
U Penn - Up. I expected it would be a hard no, and it wasn’t.
We didn’t have time to do much here, but she thought the students looked more like her type, or at least there were more people like her. There were more of everyone, frankly. I don’t think she is necessarily seeking an urban campus, but I thought it would be a turn off, and it wasn’t really. I think she is pretty neutral about that.
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This post is an aside here, so feel free to skip it. But I don’t want people left with the wrong impression, with respect to the arts & sciences college at Cornell (“CAS”) specifically. CAS is the college there that the majority of other schools compare to, in terms of areas of study and majors.
re #4651:
“But flexibility isn’t really one of their strong suits. They talked about being undeclared in CAS, and I know that you can apply to change colleges or majors if you need to, but I just feel like if you don’t have a pretty good idea of where you want to be going Cornell might not be a good fit.”
Your feeling is your feeling.
But FWIW:
-The “flexibility” at Cornell CAS is no more nor less than the flexibiilty at most other liberal arts colleges, whether stand-alone or within a university. My own D2 switched her major choice while an"undecided" student at Cornell CAS. Nobody in CAS commits to a major right away, and the timing for that committment is no different than at other Arts & Sciences colleges, or stand-alone liberal arts colleges, that I’m familiar with. I personally knew a number of CAS students who ultimately chose a major different than they initially anticipated. CAS does have distribution requirements, but so do most other liberal arts colleges.
-The specialty colleges are different in that, other than engineering (and maybe Hum Ec?), one is accepted into a specific major. So those colleges are indeed less “flexible”. But most other colleges and universities don’t even have those specialized colleges or majors in the first place ! Even there, I myself switched colleges at Cornell (and majors, obviously), and I know a number of others who did likewise. Inter-college transfer there is so common there that the university has a whole division to handle these transfers- “Office of Internal Transfers and Concurrent Degreees”.
The process of transfer between colleges has to be more cumbersome, because the applicant was never previously vetted for the destination college, and the admissions criteria at all the colleges are not identical. Not every Hotel student can handle the workload in engineering, eg. But most other arts & sciences schools don’t have any Hotel students, or Agriculture students, etc. in the first place, and most of them don’t have engineering either. They can’t be deemed “more flexible” merely because they don’t have the same programs !! Comparing apples to apples, Cornell CAS’s level of “flexibility” is typical.
Though actually it is better than typical, since there is an option of extending one’s curriculum there to take courses in the more applied colleges, which most other arts & sciences colleges don’t have access to. Most Cornell students do take courses at other of the colleges there. Additionally, there is the option to undertake a concurrent degree program with one of the more applied colleges there, eg Architecture - an option absent from most other liberal arts colleges, where those other specialized colleges don’t exist.
- end digression -..
Most college buildings are wide open during the day–walk right in. If not I’d wonder why not.
@monydad I probably should have stated that more clearly. I’m actually a big fan of Cornell, and I don’t want to put misleading info out there.
I think for the majority of kids you are right. If you are CAS, you can pick whatever major you want, as long as it is in CAS. And I think changing into most colleges or majors is a bit more involved than it is at many schools, but probably not that difficult (except Dyson, but you should expect that given how hard it is to get into). Plus Cornell is great for allowing kids to explore different areas, and the number of courses and variety of areas they cover is mind boggling.
I have no idea about declaring majors in Cornell’s Engineering and Architecture schools, but the reality is that if you are going into either of those areas you really need to start on that track as a freshman or you can’t graduate in 4 years no matter what college you attend. Even at Brown they mentioned in their info session that if you are wanting Engineering you have to start down that path early or it doesn’t work.
The second biggest college after CAS I believe is CALS, which is the Ag college. That college requires you to declare a major on your application. And it isn’t just Animal Science majors there, but also Biometry and Statistics, Communications, and Developmental Sociology. Not exactly what one normally thinks of as Ag majors. Personally I’m not a fan of having HS kids have to declare a major, and then having to apply to make a change if they don’t like it. That’s more my issue. You are correct that it will affect a minority of students, although I think it is a sizable minority. My opinion is probably also colored by the fact that she would probably apply to CALS.
I do know of one kid a few years ago that was in a major he didn’t like, but he couldn’t change to what he wanted. My guess is that he was in an easier major and still wasn’t getting very good grades, which is why he couldn’t meet the change application requirements. I have no idea how picky he was being either, that could have been part of the problem. I’m getting the story from his brother, which is why I don’t know any details. But I also know a current student who changed his major within CALS without much issue last year. So for most kids I don’t think it is probably a problem, and I may have overstated it as a negative. I still don’t like it though.
@barrons, whether college buildings are wide open during the day is a matter of where the college is located. I mean, try walking into a building at, say, Penn (located as it is in West Philadelphia) in the middle of the day without ID and count how many fractions of a second it takes before a security guard tackles you…
Which is kind of a roundabout way of saying that we like to have these “everything should be X” or “nothing should be Y” when we’re looking at colleges, but in actual fact every college is in a different context, and so we really shouldn’t always expect the same things to be an unmitigated positive or negative everywhere.
^Even at a rural school that is relatively safe, I would like for exterior doors to dorms to be locked. I recall at one we visited in PA, they had just had a rash of thefts. But no, that didn’t take it off the list!
Colleges dropped off list after tour:
Boston College: I wanted him to love it. It’s basically Hogwarts. However, S20 just wasn’t feeling it, and to be honest, I couldn’t see him there. He points to less diversity than he hoped for and an “uptight vibe”. In the end, it’s an amazing place, but just not for him.
Providence: Similar reaction to BC, but hated the surrounding area and found it to be “stepford-like”. I didn’t dislike it as much as he did, but he was pretty firm, so off the list.
American: Son was very enthused prior to visit, mostly because he is interested in DC. American fell to neutral afterwards, I think because he loved UMD so much more (see below). Found dorms to be less than stellar for the high price tag, and just wasn’t enthusiastic enough to move forward.
U of Delaware: He loved the campus but hated the area, so not interested.
Colleges that moved up/added to list:
Maryland: Fell in love with the gorgeous campus, happy with level of diversity, thrilled with proximity to DC. Didn’t even want to go see it initially, lol. Was much more interested in GW and American, but we were in the area last Feb during a big open house/discover UMD day so I pushed him to check it out. Glad I did. It’s his first choice.
Rutgers: Another one I made him look at on our way to DC. He Loved it. Went on the list right away. Loves the proximity to the city, we have family in the area, found the 5 campus situation energizing vs. intimidating, etc.
UMass Amherst: Fell in love. Loved the area, loved the campus, loved the diversity. He connected really well with the tour guide–had a lot in common in terms of major interests, sports, etc. I can see him there. It’s my first choice for him. We’ll see!
UConn: Our state flagship. Loved everything about it. Would be thrilled to go.
So clearly he’s a big state school kind of kid. That said, his GC encouraged him to look at Salve Regina University as potential safety. He wasn’t the least bit interested until he met the admissions rep when they came to his high school. Really connected with him, so he decided he wanted to visit and ended up loving it. It’s an outlier for sure, but it’s his journey, so it went on the list. I mean, the campus is mansions on the sea. It’s the Great Gatsby come to life. It also has stellar post-grad employment/grad school stats. I was very pleasantly surprised and impressed. Glad we made the trip.
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Moved up: Case Western. The campus was bigger and nicer than he expected and the nearby strip of restaurants seems like most of what he’d want off campus. Big enough but didn’t feel too big. I can see how it’s a bubble if you’re there, but he doesn’t need a lot. Wonder how often the kids really leave campus – I’m guessing not much. The museums right on the edge of campus are pretty cool. Had a great tour guide.
Very diverse student body which he likes. Students on campus seem serious and pretty geeky which suits him fine.
The highlight of the day was a personal tour of the maker space ThinkBox. He’s an engineering guy and he was amazed with everything they had access to, plus the robotics and car building teams.
He likes the fact that you apply to the college – not directly to engineering – b/c it gives more flexibility if he changes track b/c he’s also interested in entrepreneurship.
Def. will apply, but would need some aid to attend.
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S20. Looking for a small school for science PhD and a good music community. Merit aid with play a role in his decision:
School that got crossed off:
Rochester— and I hate this. We saw it over break, and that was a mistake. S20 wasn’t feeling it, and I think it would have been better if the school wasn’t dead. He felt the same way about CWRU offer the summer, but liked it when we circled back the next year. It would be great to get back to Rochester in session, but we are out of time. So I’m respecting the No.
Schools that got bumped down (but still applying):
Kenyon— reported great feel but may be too isolated. We would need to revisit it it’s still viable in the spring
William and Mary (in state)— another bad tour time. July, and the heat was awful. But it’s staying in the list because we are in state and he can revisit this winter.
Schools that went Up:
Pitt— really liked the campus and vibe. Only large school he applied to. Already admitted with merit aid through rolling decision, which is nice to have.
St. Olaf— we only went here because we flew to see Macalester. And this was the big surprise. The campus and students are purposeful, but not anxious or busy. Hard to describe, but to me it seemed peaceful. S20 fell in love.
Wooster— a safety, but s20 really loved the campus and kids and the mentored research program and music. It’s a great safety to have.
Oberlin— he spent the night in a dorm this fall and really clicked with the school.
Stayed stable— Macalester. He liked the school, but not sure he loved it. I think their campus and location are great. I’d love him to attend.
Applying without visiting—
Grinnell— interviewed locally, but we ran out of time to get to Iowa. Hope we can get on campus this winter or spring if it becomes a serious contender.
Northeastern— last minute what the heck addition with no supplemental essay
My take: when you visit is important. Bad weather (a miserable tour) or empty campus have a big impact.
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I took my daughter to a few schools in the Boston area in the past few days. She’s a very good student and is highly focused on science so it was no surprise that she fell in love with MIT. But to my surprise, she pretty much hated Tufts. Both the presentation and the tour (very disjointed) turned her off - she was simply not impressed. After Tufts we went to Brandeis for which we had no expectations. To our pleasant surprise, she liked Brandeis much more than Tufts.
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