Colleges your child crossed off the list after visiting, schools that moved up on the list. Why?

Parents Forum
4802

@TomSrOfBoston I don’t think Massachusetts has been the Zoo in over 25 years or more. Probably coinciding with me and @rickles graduating. Lol.

Heck, University of Lowell used to be the go to engineering school, it was harder to get into holy cross than BC. Umass Dartmouth was SMU and Bridgewater University was Bwtr State College. BU was the rich kids school. Emerson was in Boston.

It’s kind of like how people still can’t get over NEU being a super elite, sub 20% acceptance rate school.

It’s a different era in the bay state.

2 Likes
4803

@Camasite, the hyperattention paid to sports on the campus tour was one of the things that turned my D17 off of the University of Alabama.

And my D19 attends Mississippi State, but when my D23 went on a special tour set up for younger siblings of entering students, she (the D23) found it really bizarre the amount of effort spent on showing potential students the poshness of the athletics facilities.

So it appears to be a reasonably widespread issue.

4804

After seeing Trinity and Bates both went way up our list. We all loved both. DH and I didn’t have an opinion before seeing it but after seeing it we both liked Marrist a lot. DS didn’t so was off the list. Same with Clark. I liked it a lot. DS wasn’t crazy about the location. DS loved Hofstra after his visit. I expected to love Bard and I liked it very much but not as much as I expected. All of these are nice school and I hesitate to reply to this as I would not want to influence anyone to not try a school based on my post.

The other schools we visited didn’t change from before to after. We liked them and still liked them equally after visiting.

1 Like
4805

I felt like my visits back in February deserved a post here since I love this thread. Will probably add virtual visits below:

Moved up:

Baylor - Loved that it was unapologetically Christian but not overwhelmingly so. We had a sorta emergency just before leaving and a bunch of students who were hanging out nearby spent, literally, almost 2 hours helping us. I’d loved it earlier walking around campus on a glorious sunny day, but that fact that I still felt at home when crisis hit is what sold it to me as my top choice.

TCU - Literally half the students were wearing purple. Quad surrounding frog fountain was picture perfect. Don’t think we saw a single student eating lunch alone. AO remembered very specific things about me from when we briefly met 6 months ago and changed her plans to take us to lunch. They couldn’t say the word Christian without following it up with ‘ecumenical’ or ‘the C can be as big or as small as you want it to be’, however.

Oklahoma - Incredible campus and really nicely laid out. The library was breathtaking. Out of all my tours, this one was the most personable - small tour and info sessions, meetings with 4 different profs from my areas of interests, 2 AOs took us to lunch, and two members of the LDS student association took us round the local chapel.

Stayed the same:

CU Boulder - Boulder 100% deserves the title for best college town. Campus was absolutely gorgeous and very self-contained. You would never ever ever get tired of those mountain views. However, definitely felt big (especially without a strong honors college) and school spirit wasn’t as strong as at other schools. The environmentalism wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

Moved down:

BYU - Absolutely loved Provo, the mountains, and the unbeatable spiritual atmosphere, but the attitude to ‘why BYU’ seemed very self-righteous, condescending to other non-LDS schools, and, similarly to what others have said about Harvard, confused as to why we would even ask that. Whilst the Christian atmosphere was great, it had nothing else going for it besides being the ‘Mormon Harvard’.

Nebraska - The state-wide school spirit was amazing, students were friendly, and the Lincoln haymarket was very cute and right next to campus whilst still being separate. The school just lacked that something special. Campus was meh. Nice modern library. Academics were fine. Honors college was good. Dorms were dark and cramped (although the honors ones were awesome).

Off the list:

Kansas - Whilst the outside of the buildings were really nice, the insides seemed dark and run down. Lack of cohesiveness to the ‘campus’. Very hilly (surprising for Kansas) so we had to take very slow buses everywhere and all the students on it seemed bored and no one was talking to each other. Lawrence was a let down. Honors college was awesome, though.

2 Likes
4806

I’ve clearly had way too much time on my hands but here are my thoughts on my virtual visits:

Moved up:

Ole Miss - Honors college seems fantastic. For such a large school, it seems very personable - I’ve had lots of people move down via email. Campus seems gorgeous. I love the idea of Oxford as a literary nerd. Feels very Southern and homey which I love.

LSU - They seem like they’re really trying to focus more on academics. Students I spoke to seemed very friendly. School spirit is very high at the moment which helped.

Clemson - This school was almost off my list and has now moved way up. I was worried it was too STEM focused but it did not feel that way at all. Fantastic school spirit and traditions. Lovely campus. Felt like home. I reached out to one of the professors in my department and he was so so wonderful - answering tons of my emails and offering zoom calls. Lots of the other faculty members reached out to me as well.

South Carolina - From what I saw, I loved The Horseshoe - so so beautiful, which is where honors students live. Honors college seems incredible. Southern hospitality was very clear.

Tennessee - Southern hospitality does not even describe how friendly everyone was. I’ve had quite a few students reach out to me. Feels very homey.

Iowa - I just felt very comfortable and welcomed. Iowa City seems really really great and the school spirit is much stronger than I thought it would be.

Vanderbilt - Everyone seemed really genuine and friendly. I came away not just impressed with all their world class research and rankings and job placements like all the other T20s but could genuinely see why Vanderbilt would be a good fit for me and be worth a good, not just financial, but personal, investment.

USC - I went to a USC on the road event in my home city where I was definitely the poorest person there, and I’m upper-middle class (it was in a hotel ballroom) and came away thinking it’s nickname was well-earned. Well, now whilst I’m sure there are some people like that there, as with any top college, I now know that there are lots of very down-to-earth students there. Incredible alumni network and I was blown away by the opportunities.

Syracuse - School spirit seems incredible and very strong alumni network.

Stayed the same:

Alabama - Honors college and dorms and very wow, school spirit seems incredible (duh). Can’t recall learning much beyond that. Didn’t get that homey feeling.

Duke - It’s Duke. They assumed that would be enough to convince me to apply. But maybe it is. They personable attention and small classes may have been a bigger sell if there weren’t 350 computers logged in to the zoom meeting.

UNC - This was definitely the weakest virtual visit of any of them. UNC is in my top 5 but I literally learned nothing new. I did it again in case maybe the people I had were just bad but nope.

Mizzou - Eh.

Arizona - Campus and honors college seem nice enough. Not sure if it’s enough to suffer through the Arizona heat though.

Moved down:

Florida - Great school spirit but some of the students I spoke to seemed stressed out and competitive.

Virginia Tech - The school spirit and traditions seem very strong. Everyone just seemed very…cold. I just didn’t feel very comfortable with anyone I talked to.

Iowa State - There was nothing I could put my finger on that didn’t seem right, but something just didn’t click. It was 3 hours long, but I only lasted an hour.

Off the list:

Wisconsin - The admissions guy spent most of the presentation going over what majors they had. It just felt like any other flagship. Meh. None of the students I asked seemed to know anything about campus ministries compared to the Southern schools in which everyone was saying how active they were on campus.

Pitt - I knew this wasn’t for me about five minutes in when half the pictures on the slides were of the city, not campus. They kept talking about how ‘the city is your campus’. Didn’t bother finishing it.

4807

Great summary @CollegeBoundBrit

We got that feeling from UCLA. Their virtual tone has been “we know you want to come here and this is what you need to do.” UCLA’s sessions (L&S) are very global about the school as a whole and there haven’t been many opportunities to drill down and find out more about your individual interests. Berkeley has done a much better job at reaching out and letting students connect virtually with different departments, clubs, activities, etc.

Virtually, Duke has reached out in many different ways and we receive several emails of events, sessions and ways to find out more information everyday.

USC has also had multiple ways to connect. Some sessions are large but there are also sessions about very specific topics that are almost one on one. Both admissions counselors and admissions departments have been in constant communication.

1 Like
4808

But surprisingly it really differs from place to place. Four years ago we were living in TX and did the tour of SEC schools with the oldest daughter. Alabama and Florida State were absolutely over the top with the sports facilities and had the visitors centers right in the football stadiums so you had to walk by all the football statues and look out over the stadium field and players practicing during the start of the tour. They knew what they were selling. She wound up at Arkansas which had some of that but was more into student amenities than worship of D1 athletes. It seemed more student-centered rather than athletics-centered.

Here in the Northwest we have visited UO, UW, and WSU. The UO is BY FAR the most obsessive about branding and promoting its D1 athletic programs combined with all the Nike branding. They have, for example, an over-the-top world class tutoring center just for student athletes: https://www.zgf.com/project/uo-jaqua-academic-center/ who’s sole purpose is recruiting athletic talent from CA, TX and FL. While many of the academic buildings for non-athletes look like they were last updated in the 1960s. By contrast, at the UW many of the academic buildings, especially in science and engineering are absolutely world class, while the athletic facilities take second fiddle. Yes they have a huge football stadium, but the rest of the athletic facilities at UW are very ordinary compared to the UO. And there is less extravagant nonsense like climbing walls and elaborate student centers. They are more selling the academics than the athletic branding. You notice it if you are paying attention. Contrast Oregon’s basketball palace to Washington’s aging old basketball fieldhouse for example. Oregon is building a $200 million track and field palace funded by Nike. Washington’s track complex looks like a HS football field with a few aluminum bleachers. Yet Washington is the far wealthier university.

For kids who are into their university athletic scene that is one thing. My daughter is turned off by it. So when it is very in-your-face on the college tours we notice.

4809

Interesting. Thanks for the run-down. We visited any of these same schools a few years ago for my oldest daughter and had very different experiences at some of them based on the actual real-world visit compared to the virtual visit. For example, LSU has a gorgeous campus and Greek Row. But once you get 3 blocks off campus you find that Baton Rouge is a very run-down and unappealing crime-ridden city with little to recommend it But of course you would never see that on a curated virtual tour. And frankly, Louisiana is not a particularly attractive state. By contrast, Madison WI is one of the prettiest cities you will find anywhere in the country with parks and trails and lakes everywhere.

I know we are in the world of virtual visits and there may not be any other way to do it for students entering in fall 2020 if you haven’t already made in-person tours. But buyer beware. I think there are going to be a lot of students next fall who are going to be somewhat surprised that the campus and city they are seeing for the first time looks nothing like what they saw on their virtual tours.

4810

Out:

Boston College: smug, self congratulatory, lots of brand clothing and all the same brand. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Amherst: lovely campus. Tour guide pointed out all the houses set aside for single language students. Not much left after that. Too small.

In:
UPenn: we live right outside the city and had never truly seen the campus. Heavens. Love the campus and location.

1 Like
4811

Hello, I have enjoyed reading the last 3 pages of posts this morning. I am getting back into the swing of things on CC because of my 3rd kid who is currently a sophomore in HS. A special hello to @TomSrOfBoston who is a legend and was super helpful when my other 2 kids were considereing Northeastern and BU 4 and 2 years back.

Wanted to say my D22 and I did a virtual tour for Hofstra this month. Was kind of a random thing to do, but she thinks she’ll like a city school and wants to see Hofstra, St. John’s and Fordham eventually. Hofstra will be a safety for her, so I was very curious. And we had never done a virtual visit. They were very thorough, almost too thorough, answering tons of questions. The visit was at least 1 1/2 hrs. long. Since she’s still young, that was a lot! But the kids leading it love their school and were super involved. I have never visited, so I don’t know what the campus on Long Island is like, but we would like to visit after doing the virtual tour. At least 10-15 kids were on with us.

What we liked even better was a “virtual” tour of Fordham, but it wasn’t live. She liked that approach much more, and probably because she’s only a sophomore. I find it odd that more schools are not offering presentations that are not live. I haven’t been able to find any others. But there are virtual tours on websites, I suppose.

4812

College…Brit Sounds like you want a Christian college or place with a similar vibe. No wonder Wisconsin doesn’t seem a good fit for you. It certainly is not a Bible Belt state.

4813

One Thing I would say about virtual tours, I did one of my daughters school, she graduate a few years ago an dafter taking it I popped my head in her room since she is now home w us and said , she did not go to the school I just toured, it was night and day different, my DS20 decided his school with out seeing it because campus was shut down, hope he is not disappointed when he gets there , when ever that is.

4814

“It’s kind of like how people still can’t get over NEU being a super elite, sub 20% acceptance rate school.”

It does have below 20% rate but it’s not super-elite, however you want to define that.
This article is about 5 years old, but covers how NU gamed the rankings and acceptance rate numbers.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/3/

Even if you don’t believe anything in the article, NE’s yield is 18%, which is definitely not super-elite. I’m not even sure people at NE think they’re super-elite, I know someone who’s there because he didn’t get into Dartmouth, which is, in fact, super-elite.

1 Like
4815

As someone who grew up in the Boston suburbs but hasn’t lived there in many years, I appreciated this read…Thanks for sharing.

4816

Anyone know if there are other schools like NE who flagrantly game the rankings to improve their ranking number above what it deserves to be?

Kind of a list of who to avoid because they are more interested in rankings than actually serving their own students?

I found this article which suggests it is common. But it is also 8 years old: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/education/gaming-the-college-rankings.html

4817

I don’t think schools that game the rankings should necessarily be avoided.

Unfortunately, USNWR rankings are important to many college administrators and trustees, and they direct their teams to act accordingly…but that doesn’t mean the school should be avoided.

4818

Avoided might be a strong word. But looked at with a healthy level of skepticism perhaps. If they are lying about their statistics, what else are they lying about? It is a slippery slope. When I visit a college with my daughter and ask a serious question, I expect an actual honest answer. If they are lying or using deceptive statistics I would wonder how deep the rot goes. I don’t want to have to be a forensic auditor to figure it out for myself.

4819

‘Gaming’ rankings does not mean a college is lying about statistics. There are legitimate ways to increase rank by focusing on improving components/measures of USNWR’s ranking methodology.

This is important to some colleges because students and their parents care what the college ranking is. Right or wrong, they care, and relentlessly ask administrators questions about the rankings. We see that here on CC all. the. time.

Here is a sampling of some actions that schools have taken over the years that have led to people say they are gaming the rankings, but they are all legitimate: (note that some of these might not apply anymore due to changes in USNWR ranking methodology)

-Use common app platform
-Eliminate supplemental essay
-Eliminate application fee
-Going to waitlist before May 1
-Offer spring matriculation
-Limit % of test optional acceptances/matriculants
-Recruit pell grant students
-Adding EDI and/or II

Lying about statistics, be it graduation rate, or test scores, or retention rate is not gaming, it is lying, and that is never ok.

4820

I agree with @mwfan1921 in that the schools that try to boost their rankings are often ones that you do still want to pay attention to because they are good schools! But they also may give you that EWW feeling, too. I can say that Case Wesern Reserve, over the last 5 years, has obviously made a concerted effort to increase their number of applications so that their acceptance rate is eventually lower, and its working! They are also consistently raising the bar on gpa and scores and have tightened things up - to their advantage. CWRU sends recuitment material to students who will not be accepted (well below the 25% threshold of their scores). They do ED II as well. They are also no longer need blind but are need aware, and to go along with that, they now guarantee to meet your need. I think it helps if your EFC is on the higher end or if you are full pay. Not just for CWRU, but to many schools. It is a business.

My experience with CWRU comes from my high achieving D18 (1500 SAT, 5.0 w gpa when she applied) who was deferred in Early Action, Waitlisted, and eventually offered admission for the fall of 2019 (not 2018, her natural freshman year). I have nothing against the school, other than wishing she could have considered them for fall of 2018. Because of this close up experience we had, I make the comments I did above. I have no insider knowledge. Just an admiration for the school, tbh. And our EFC a couple of years ago when she was applying would’ve been about 1/3 of their cost of Tuition and Room/Board. Interesting.

1 Like
4821

@theloniusmonk @Camasite I haven’t seen that old article from Boston Magazine linked here in, gosh, two weeks. Northeastern gamed the system by hiring new faculty, building new facilities, shrinking class size in many courses, increasing research funding dramatically among other things. And their yield last year was 23%.

1 Like