“The Dark Side”…love it or hate it, everybody has an opinion.
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Tell us more about Muhlenberg, please! F&M was our first visit earlier this summer… I liked the “house” experience, esp for freshmen, and their main common rooms w/fireplaces, sofas & pianos felt like home away from home. My son wasn’t as smitten. As for Lehigh, my concern is the overemphasis on Greek life/partying. At nearby Lafayette, there seems to be a better work/play balance. It’s also a much smaller school.
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My dd truly felt like she fit in at Muhlenberg. She said that everyone seemed very friendly who she met on campus when she stayed over. She also liked the smaller class size of the classes she was able to sit in on (pre-Covid). The campus itself was very nice, but a little too small for her liking. Also, I think it was a little too close to home distance-wise and that is what swayed her decision to not attend.
What I really liked was their success rate at getting kids into professional programs such as med school, etc. I also felt that their admissions dept gave a great presentation and overview of the school. Also, the merit money was a huge plus. I felt like it was a hidden gem that people tend to overlook.
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Anyone seriously considering Cornell should visit in winter as well … that is what it would really be like for most of the school year…
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Thank you, great info… we may check it out!
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We just got back from a visit to Whitman College, and wanted to say that my S21 gave it 2 thumbs up. Good thing, because we were moving him in for his freshman year! Did not get to visit due to covid, so it was a big relief that he very much liked the campus and town. We did not take an official tour, just walked around, but recognized many of the buildings from our extensive research. The campus itself is gorgeous, perhaps the prettiest campus I have seen. Very green, and coming from CA I was a bit shocked to see so much beautifully kempt green grass. Lots of trees too, and a little creek that runs through campus. We also really liked Walla Walla. Downtown is adjacent to campus so you can walk everywhere. Very charming, many wine tasting rooms, with lots of little restaurants and shops mixed in. I would not say it is rural, more small town (population 33,000). For my son who does not like urban, but doesn’t want to be in the middle of nowhere, it is perfect. I know some people say Whitman is in the middle of nowhere, but not from our perspective. We’ll see what he thinks once classes start and all the students move in (he is there early for sports), but so far he has only good things to say!
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@MaryMcK and anyone else with insight, did you feel like F&M was not too Greek as well? I keep coming back to it because, on paper, it’s like so many of the other LAC we’re looking at, but whenever I start diving into it, the dominance of Greek life (and probations/suspensions) drives me off. I’m not so worried about a school having frats and sororities, as long as if a kid chooses not to participate they aren’t stuck without a social life.
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I loved Whitman! My D19 considered it but ultimately wanted to go farther afield (we’re from the Bay Area), but we all thought it was great! And it’s not so much in the middle of nowhere, as not super easy to get to. But she ended up in the middle of Ohio which isn’t super easy to get too either.
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Yes, you have to fly through Seattle to get to Walla Walla. But the airport is maybe 5 minutes from campus, so that helps. We also could fly directly from SF to Pasco and then drive 45 minutes. Hope your daughter is enjoying college, and GO PACK! My husband is from Milwaukee and both my boys are of course huge fans.
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I share the exact same concern— I’m not down on Greek life per se, but would be very unhappy if my kid felt like he was missing out on all the fun if he chose not to join. FWIW, I did get a very not-so-Greek vibe on the F&M tour, and I specifically asked our guide where the fraternity houses were. They were located on a side street adjacent to campus. I got the impression that it was there if you wanted it, but not a dominant force like you might find at Lehigh or Bucknell. In the “Reviews” section on Niche there’s more info/quotes from students on F&M’s profile. Note that just a few years ago there was a horrific hazing death of a NJ boy at one of Penn State’s fraternities— the story got a ton of national press, and it’s been a wake-up call for schools in PA and beyond. Criminal charges for hazing would be harsher under upgraded Timothy Piazza law - nj.com
Right or wrong, colleges strive to “up” their average GPAs, ACTs, SATs etc. to move up in the stats/rankings. The more desirable, the more they will be able to attract paying parents.
To make high achieving students pick their college, some roll out the red carpet.
I remember our accepted students visit to NorthEastern - separate check-in, then whisked away for luncheon on top floor lounge in their high rise honors building. Then they started a presentation, offering thousands of more merit dollars, then throwing in paid foreign studies, etc etc. It was kind of surreal.
This had been one of my daughters top choices. After all that I figured that deal was sealed… oddly it didn’t work on her, only on me 
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Had this exact conversation with my daughter - she might have considered Greek life as an option, but VERY much appreciated that at Columbia Univ, Greek life was simply an(other) OFFERING, almost a footnote, but not remotely necessary to have a full social life. (In fact, there are no sororities at Barnard, but students are able to rush at the Univ if they so choose.)
From what she knows from her HS friends, that is quite different at some other colleges, where one virtually HAS to go Greek…
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Seems about right. Which program would your DC be interested in? Some are more personal than others.
Edited to add: agree, visit in winter.
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Did anyone else visit UVA this summer? Would like to know if our experience was unique.
Went thinking UVA would be a top choice and left with it possibly off the list completely. Had an in person tour which was terrible. Guide was a rising sophomore who only knew UVA during Covid and really had nothing nice to say about the school. Food, dorms, administration all awful except looking forward to living off campus this year. Couldn’t answer any questions because never had in person classes or experiences.
I know this is just one student’s experience but it’s a student the admissions office put in front of prospective students. Is it worth revisiting?
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Due to local family we visited two more PA schools, Muhlenberg and Lehigh.
We did a self guided tour at Lehigh because the info sessions and student led tours were full. Lehigh wasn’t knocked off the list based on the campus and surrounding area. Unfortunately the virtual tour app did not work well and the tour kept rebooting back to asking for student information at beginning so we ended up just walking around on the general route. We had lunch at The Gooseman where we saw some students, staff, and faculty.
Muhlenberg got knocked off the list. The information session was difficult to sit through. The admissions rep spoke extremely quickly to the point that it was work to follow what she was saying, especially through a mask. The student representative who spoke was much more engaging. Our tour guide was also great. Even though I wouldn’t consider my daughter mainstream in her interests, her presentation was more mainstream than the other prospective students on the tour. Of course, students on a tour might not be representative of the actual student body. The only students we saw on campus were on some of the men’s sports teams who, in contrast, did seem more mainstream as well as very nice and polite. In any case, Muhlenberg is off the list. We don’t see Muhlenberg and Allentown worth the extra travel expense in comparison to some of my daughter’s in state options of similar caliber.
What has become clear through our PA tours is that my daughter is not put off by more gritty urban areas like the areas around Temple and Lehigh. She appreciated the green Bryn Mawr campus after being in the city. She prefers a contiguous campus rather than campus intertwined with the city like parts of Drexel.
One of the less instructive aspects of touring over the summer is that our tour groups seemed to influence her even though tour group students may not be representative of the actual student body. It also seemed apparent to me that high school students were more awkward after a year plus of relative isolation. All the kids seemed a bit more uncomfortable than I remember from prepandemic tours with my older son.
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Similar experience at UVA - had a tour a couple of weeks ago. Another family on the tour with us shared observations similar to yours. We may have had the same tour guide. We did meet a couple of friendly staff members. When we were visiting, there was a lot of construction gong on. For those of you planning to visit: Parking was very difficult but we found a good place to park in a ramp on the other side of the bookstore. Easy walk to the admissions reception tent.
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I’m glad you couldn’t get the Lehigh self-guided tour app to work either, so it wasn’t just us. My D liked Lehigh but I was turned off when they wanted her stats in order to download the app and there was no one we could have asked a question of. She didn’t mind the steepness of the campus but I struggled a bit. Husband said this is why people in their 50s do not go to college.
We toured Lafayette the same day and that moved up the list. Had an excellent tour guide with a lot of enthusiasm for the school who was an excellent match for my D. D and parents were impressed with the school but it may not work out for her field of study.
My D is heavily influenced by the personality of the tour guides. She was turned off from one school by a sarcastic guide, even though that student is a senior and will have graduated by next fall.
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I’ve never seen the gritty parts of North Philly and Bethlehem presented as equals before. Temple has gotten better, but it is in a pretty dicey neighborhood. Take a look at the crime log…it’s active.
The area around Drexel is dramatically transformed over the past 10 years. It helps that Penn is across the street, but there are new apartment complexes and retail/dining options that weren’t available before, which is a nice addition to the dining “alley” options on Sansom street.
As for Lehigh/Lafayette…we assume Lehigh was going to be the better fit for D18, but quickly switched to Lafayette after visiting both. There are several HS friends at Lafayette, and everyone seems to really enjoy the experience. Easton ebbs and flows a bit, but is a nicer town than Bethlehem.
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My son graduated years ago but I still remember his guide . And she was great. That is surprising and disappointing that your guide was so bad. I thought they screened the university guides fairly carefully and they have to go through try outs, classes, interviews, etc. Did you give any feedback to UVA about your tour?
I think it would be worth revisiting since you felt it could have been a top choice before this bad tour.
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I love how the word “gritty” is used. When we toured Cal with our S16 I politely used “gritty” to describe the area. S16 looked at me and said “does that mean third-world”?
No diss intended to Cal.
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