Yes I’ve heard great things about Skidmore! Thank you for this insight.
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Penn is an interesting campus. I am an alum of a graduate program there, and can confidently say that unless someone with knowledge or experience is providing the tour…it feels cold and at times a bit sketchy. I don’t think any tours have allowed access to the quad, which is the “Ivy” feel most freshmen get to experience. They don’t really take you around Spruce street, which is where a lot of action takes place. You walk up and down Walnut- which is nice and all- but don’t really get the “vibe”. Even on the tours (as mentioned up thread) they focus on the academic and not the social scene. Anyway, we’ve heard from a lot of people that their Penn tours have pushed them away a bit.
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If you have the time, it would be nice if you said as much to the admissions department. As an alum, I suspect they would take your feedback seriously. I also have to wonder if the route and focus of Penn tours have been altered due to Covid.
I’m a Philadelphia resident and have a number of friends and colleagues who have attended Penn. I’ve never felt unsafe on and around campus, but I’d invite families considering any urban school to familiarize themselves with the government database on campus crimes:
https://ope.ed.gov/campussafety/#/compare/details
One-time visitors often get a skewed view of the real risks involved at colleges, since tours are a curated version of campus life. Penn is an awesome school and Philadelphia is a great city for college students. The per-capita rates for almost all crimes at Penn are considerably lower than the rates of those attending college at say, the prestigious college in New Haven, which one would never takeaway from reading this thread.
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There are several trustees in our town. I have mentioned it to them, and the one who is most involved sort of nodded her head and acknowledged. She made a couple of points. One, at some point students began complaining that tours impacted their activities- whether it was in libraries, living spaces, etc. (pre-Covid). So they altered the tours slightly. Two, the types of students willing to give tours has tended to be the more academically focused…the bookworm who wants to come out of their shell. Three, they tailor it to those they are trying to woo. Namely, what do international and/or first generation families want to hear about/see? My prep school kid from NY doesn’t need to be sold- she’s around Penn alum every day of her life and will want to attend no matter what.
I think it’s folly, but of course 5-6% accept rate obviously shows they don’t need my opinions. BUT…it’s a different school, for better or worse. I was there when Penn was making runs in the NCAA, and the whole campus was either at Smoke’s or watching the games- that was the ONLY thing going on. I sense today that it is more a la carte learning. The community that exists at Penn is singularly focused on their degree attainment and not part of “Penn” per se. But we digress… Yes, the Penn tours are NOT indicative of the campus or the beauty of the area, and spend zero time on Philadelphia at large. As an example, at Vanderbilt our tour guide spent a good deal of time discussing how the community integrates with Nashville at large- and Vandy is a bit more removed from downtown than Penn is geographically.
You are right. I should have provided a caveat to my post that D is a life-long suburbanite who does not have a lot of experience living in big cities.
Also, agree on New Haven. I was not satisfied with the area outside Yale campus but I believe D chose to ignore it over the prestige. Again “not satisfied” here is relative and from the perspective of an overprotective suburbanite parent. Personally, I myself have lived in some of the most unsafe urban areas in the world compared to which New Haven, Philly, and Baltimore may as well be paradise 
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Baltimore?
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Yikes, did I unintentionally stir up another hornets’ nest?
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As a long time CT resident I’d take New Haven over any other CT city. I love it.
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If only for the pizza
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Let’s get back on topic please…
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This has been a fun thread to read! We’ve done a handful of tours with my senior S22 (who is interested in global studies, political science and history).
We started local just to see what kind of schools he might like:
- DePaul University - DOWN - Felt too commuter and didn’t like the religious/Catholic images throughout campus (at one point there was a life-sized Pope cutout staring at us through the window of the Catholic Student Union’s offices). Also this one is too close to home (like literally two train stops away). Did not apply.
- Loyola University - UP - Weirdly the religious/Catholic images didn’t bother him here. The campus is very pretty and on the lake (we toured on a nice, late summer day). Excellent tour guide. And, unlike DePaul, it did not feel commuter at all. Accepted with generous merit, but doesn’t want to go to school so close to home.
- Butler University - SLIGHTLY UP - Nice personalized touches and attractive campus. Tour guide was pretty good. One signifiant down side is the lack of businesses/restaurants within walking distance of campus (we had to drive to get a burger). Accepted with generous merit, but likely off the list because of better options.
- IU -DOWN - Campus and surrounding area were pretty dead (summer tour). My S decided he preferred a smaller school. Accepted but will not attend.
Then we ventured further out:
- University of Denver - UP, THEN DOWN? - My S had a weird reaction to DU. During the information session he was really excited about it (even leaned over to confirm his stats made this one an easy match), but then half-way through the walking tour he just turned off. Not exactly sure why. It was a long tour with a forgettable guide, so he might have just hit his limit (we flew in that morning, and out later the same day). By the end, he was complaining there were “too many trees” (what???). He still applied based on his initial impression and because DU has a good International Relations program. Accepted with generous merit, and still on his list.
- Gettysburg College – WAY UP – this was the biggest surprise. We started a mini mid-Atlantic tour with Gettysburg College, partly because I thought everyone would have fun seeing the battlefield. My S is a huge history buff, and we also had my 8th grader (D26) along for the trip. The tour was one-on-one due to COVID, and the guide was amazing. She personalized everything. The tour was followed by a good interview with an admissions officer. My S loved the small town and the battlefield (conversely my D26 hated everything; said it felt old and “haunted”). Because the area draws tourists, the town has plenty of cute shops and restaurants. (Side note: I’m a little worried about the political leanings here, but nothing problematic jumped out during the visit and my S seems to think it will make for lively debate.) Applied RD, waiting.
- GWU - WAY DOWN - My S did not like this one at all, although he went into the trip thinking it would be a favorite. Just way too urban. Almost no green space at all. I think his impression was impacted by the fact that we live in a huge city (actually in the city, not a suburb) – so instead of seeing the excitement of big city life, he sees all of the daily headaches associated with city living. The tour group was huge, and guide was hard to hear. But we had fun visiting the mall after and my D26 said GWU was her favorite, so not a total loss. My S did not even apply.
- American University - NEUTRAL - After GWU, I was hoping this would be the big winner. And S did really like the campus. It has some pretty quads/green spaces and felt easy to navigate. Our tour guides were good, but not great. The only downside was there seemed to be very little within walking distance of campus. I have since checked Google maps and think Tenleytown is slightly less than a mile away (my S walks almost this far to/from school daily). I wish we had checked out that area when we were there. Applied RD and waiting for a decision.
- William & Mary - NEUTRAL or SLIGHTLY DOWN- I thought this one might check a lot of boxes for S because it was similar to Gettysburg with a historic location and small town feel. And he did really enjoy our afternoon visiting Colonial Williamsburg. Unfortunately, the W&M info session and tour were just so-so. The info session had a campy, rehearsed feel which did not appeal to my son. Almost like they were trying too hard to be entertaining. The tour was too long and, frankly, a little boring. The groups were large and the tour guide was hard to hear, partly because there was a lot of noisy construction on campus. However, the campus is undeniably gorgeous. My S applied RD, but was not as excited about W&M as I expected.
This is my second time doing the college tour thing (I have a S20 who had totally different interests and priorities). I am struck by how impressions are formed by the most random things!
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Just FYI my son is a junior at Gettysburg and is very liberal. No issues. He absolutely loves it. He is a non drinker and said that hasn’t been an issue either with finding things to do.
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Ain’t that the truth. 
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My son didn’t like how, at Davidson, all the humanities classes are in one building. “That’s like high school.”
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Great write up and demonstrates that fit should include the actual program. I also have two very different kids and their college experiences couldn’t be more different. One of them is a performing artist theater BFA kid and it was almost all about the program and location for her. Not much else mattered.
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Albeit a little smaller, we felt Richmond was quite similar to Wake in its commitment to quality of essentially everything. Really great how they care for the student body and provide service. Not a hand holding thing but just ready to serve when asked. Attention to detail was very impressive.
When we toured, S’ younger sister attended (family trip). She’s an artist and received many follow up letters mentioning their arts program. They got to know her while we were in the waiting room during S’ interview.
The yr S applied, they actually sent a request from the President (pretty sure to everyone but don’t know that) to the parents asking us to write a brief summary illuminating our child’s qualities. I had never seen or heard of that prior (or since). It was really cool. The Pres wrote a letter stating that he was a parent too and had recently gone through the admissions process with his kids and always felt that if school X knew Y about his kid it would make a difference so he went straight to the horses mouth. Think he asked us to use three words that summarized our child and to expand on those. Very cool and thoughtful (and unique).
Go Spiders!
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My niece loved Gettysburg.
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Self visits summer 2020, spring 2021, summer 2021; visits w/ actual tour spring & summer 2021. We did both at some schools.
Vassar: WAY UP. Self-toured in summer 2020, really liked it, but wasn’t until we did a real tour in summer 2021 that D really fell in love (eventually applied ED). She loved the trees, the residential quad and all the talk about inclusiveness since its inception as a women’s college. We only had info sessions at a couple of schools, because COVID, and this was the only one inside done by a professional AO (not awkward students with an AO trying to pry info out of them) which was really helpful. Not sure why more schools don’t realize this. Tour guide was good - just a regular kid/boy, but really into the history of the school as originally a women’s college & that made a good impression. He clearly loved the school. And who can’t stand in that library & not want to go there?
Oberlin - UP - We both loved the campus - videos/pictures do not do justice. It’s much bigger than I thought & the buildings are far more beautiful than come across. Tour guide was excellent and had done super-interesting things (3 week trip to Senegal to learn dance during January session! Theater stuff! While still being a neuroscience major). We liked the little town as well. We had a great meeting w/ a dance professor who my D had emailed ahead of time, and almost with a music professor who didn’t see the email in time, but tried to make time for us anyway. Admissions folks were really nice & willing to answer questions on the spot. We truly loved Oberlin, and it remained her second choice.
Sarah Lawrence - UP. This wasn’t even a really serious contender until we stopped by for a casual self-tour spring 2021. She really liked the campus, the students were super friendly and she loved that it was a lovely, self-contained campus in an urban environment, as well as its proximity to NYC. Went back for a real tour later and still liked it. Don’t hear much about SL on CC but it should be a good contender for an artsy kid, who will thrive in a smaller environment, but wants an urban feel near a large city.
Bard College - STAYED THE SAME - D knew on paper Bard was a good fit, and it neither went up or down when we visited. Admittedly it was pouring rain the day we went, and the tour was a bit disjointed as it was given by two students (one leaving, one taking the job). Overall she liked it, but the tour didn’t do the school any favors. They’ve added so many new buildings that the campus doesn’t have a super-cohesive feel, and they didn’t do a good job selling the programs. Most importantly they didn’t even suggest we go see north or south campus - fortunately I knew to take drive/walk down to both - the campus is very spread out and some of the most impressive buildings/views are at either end (theater, dorms in north campus, mansion/Hudson River views in south campus, as well as arts buildings). Overall though Bard is very impressive and has some wonderful programs and it stayed on my D’s list as a real contender.
Barnard - WENT DOWN - she liked the idea of being in the city, but realized once she saw the size of the campus and realized many of the dorms were actually several blocks away that it was not for her. She wasn’t at all interested in Columbia, and saw the connection as a negative. Didn’t like the tiny campus (though we didn’t actually get to go in, as it was still closed for COVID so take that with a grain of salt). She also didn’t want to be the poor kid among all the richer students in NYC and not able to take advantage of the things they could. Came off the list.
Skidmore - WENT DOWN. She didn’t like the vibe of the campus, didn’t like the look of the buildings (though inside they were nicer), overall just didn’t like it. Was the only place we toured where we were taken into the sports complex, which was a negative for my daughter 
and also didn’t like that business was a big major there. We also had a weird kind of creepy encounter with a professor who was obviously making our young female tour guide uneasy with his familiarity and he was NOT picking up on it. Could have happened anywhere, but it happened there. I came away thinking she could do worse, especially as Saratoga is a very cool little city, but she took it right off her list.
Mt. Holyoke - WENT UP, CAME DOWN. We originally self-toured Mt. Holyoke summer 2020 on a super hot day (my D hates the heat) and loved it - the buildings were gorgeous, the brochure for their self-tour was very informative and had info on all their great traditions, etc. It was one of the first campuses my D saw once she started really thinking about college and she just loved it. She was worried about the tiny town though & no real access to anywhere larger. As she started thinking about what she really wanted in a college she realized that Mt. Holyoke wasn’t a particularly good fit for her and by the time we went back in 2021 for a real tour it already was largely off her list. The tour was lackluster, the guide knew nothing about any programs that she wasn’t personally interested in (which were not the same things my D was interested in) and was weirdly unwilling to answer questions. It came off the list, but did influence some of things D continued to want - beautiful campus, stone buildings with old wood inside, traditions.
Wesleyan - WENT DOWN - we self-toured Wesleyan twice and my D hated it both times. On paper it was a good match for her, but she didn’t like the buildings, how the campus was arranged or the town. She also didn’t like any of the on-line offerings, so clearly it wasn’t the right fit for her though I’ve still never quite figured out why. She hated the arts buildings, she hated the dorms, she hated the sports field in the middle of campus. Just wasn’t for her.
We also walked around Bates, Bowdoin & Colby while in Maine for other reasons - D loved Bates’ campus, and didn’t mind Lewiston, but didn’t like Colby (felt rundown) or Bowdoin (felt too polished). But when it came time to seriously look she refused to go actually look at Bates and it came off the list.
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Our Ds are kindred spirits: loved Vassar and Oberlin (accepted at both), disliked Wesleyan (which surprised me and didn’t get in), liked Bates, down on Colby, meh on Bowdoin. (FWIW, my D applied to all 3 Maine schools, got into Colby. WL at Bates, dinged at Bowdoin.) Ended up at a different SLAC.
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