UC Berkeley: up/same
toured UC Berkeley today with D23/S23. It’s only an hour from our house but never been before. The campus was much prettier than we expected but somehow had a disjointed feel. No central grassy quad but rather several different meet up/ hang out spots. It’s a relatively dense campus which we liked. Didn’t get a great feel for academics other than the complete turnoff of the 1900 student intro compsci classes and 500 student intro other classes. The housing and food is bad as you would expect. But the location is fantastic for a student. We liked our guide. She wasn’t a polished speaker at all but seemed normal, honest, and likable. D23 agrees for the money it’s a choice to consider compared to lower ranked OOS flagships she is also considering. S23 is pretty dead set against staying in CA and this tour didn’t change his mind.
Sproul Plaza isn’t grassy and it’s not in the center of campus, but that’s really the central quad and a great people watching place if you’re hanging out between classes.
In the first five minutes of our tour at Skidmore our son knew it wasn’t for him. The same thing your daughter said didn’t like the vibe and the layout of the campus. We visited Union in the morning and Skidmore in the afternoon. I think if Union was in Saratoga Springs and not Schencetady it would have moved to the top of my son’s list.
D25 did some early visits last week. We had a bit of a road trip, and included several visits along our journey.
Amherst - same. Not an official visit, but an unofficial one by a current student. D really liked most things about it, but thinks the academics will be too intense for her (based on the student she knows who we were visiting). She may be right, but she may also change her feelings a bit over the next few years. If she gets over that fear, Amherst may end up on her list. Really she liked most things about it.
MHC - way up. This was her first ever official college visit. She has gone from “hell no” on women’s colleges to “fine, I’ll look at them since we are going to be right there anyway” in the last 6 months or so. I thought if I could just get her to consider them, they may end up being exactly what she wants. I could tell halfway through the tour that she was really liking it. Liked the size, says she still doesn’t like the “all women” aspect, but honestly she likes everything that comes along with that atmosphere. It is more the theory of all women that she has a problem with, she likes the reality. Being there, and with us traipsing between MHC, Amherst and Northampton several times over a couple of days, she realized that while it is predominantly women on campus, it is a 20 minute bus ride to 7,000 guys at UMass, so maybe it’s not a big deal to have them available when you want to see them, but not necessarily having them around all of the time.
Smith - way up. After MHC, we saw Smith and she liked it even more. I think the biggest reasons were being able to walk into Northampton, the physical look and feel of campus, and most importantly the house system. We had 2 tour guides, and they did a good job selling that. I can see it being a big factor when she is deciding where to apply to and maybe even ED to. Smith has a reputation for being more “type A strivers” and SJWs. We talked to 4 students, maybe a bit of SJW from one, no off putting competitiveness from any of them. I wasn’t feeling the stereotypes at all. Just smart, confident young women.
Vassar - up .TLDR=MHC with guys. Of course there are some differences, but I felt the same vibe, take away the beard our tour guide was sporting and he would fit right in at either MHC or Smith. They had a different house system than Smith, but another one that D really liked. I asked about the “all theater kids” reputation. They said a lot of students either were in the past or were currently into theater, but by no means everyone. They did say if you don’t have any appreciation for art broadly, it may not be a great fit. But there is no pressure to be creating it or performing.
Cornell - same. A bit too big, a bit of a reputation as a grinder school, and a gray sky all were turn offs. It didn’t help that the student we talked to (not on a tour) said that the grinder reputation was deserved and that he misses the sun (we didn’t catch him on the best day, and he was a bit burned out and being brutally honest with her about the things he didn’t like). Probably not on her list anyway, but nothing about this visit moved it up. For the record, I’m a Cornell fan, and he is too. And he did tell her that the size isn’t really as bad as you think, most of his classes are in buildings within 5 minutes of each other, and it’s like that for most students after first year. She didn’t love the size, but thought if that was the case she could probably deal with it. But he knows her well and knows that some of the minor annoyances for him will be big issues for her, so he didn’t sugar coat things at all.
Haverford - same. This was the last one we saw, and honestly both of our brains were full at this point. She liked it, but probably puts it after Smith, MHC and Vassar. No great reason other than she was really liking the historical women’s college vibe, and obviously Haverford doesn’t have that. I think BMC may have been a better fit for her, but they didn’t have tours open that worked with our schedule, plus I thought I was already pushing my luck getting her to look at both MHC and Smith when she wasn’t really wanting a women’s college. At some point the next 3 years we will probably need to see Bryn Mawr.
Fordham - way down. We did get some useful info here. Fordham is out. The size wasn’t a problem, physically it’s more like a LAC than a midsized University (1/2 the geographical area of Haverford). It doesn’t really feel crowded, and there was plenty of green space. But the buildings are all a bit bigger and closer together than the LAC’s we saw. The city location is a plus, really it feels like a LAC that could be anywhere, but once you get outside the gates you are 20 minutes to manhattan.
The big issue with Fordham is that it felt VERY Catholic. I haven’t been to Notre Dame or Villanova, but I think they are much more so and I thought Fordham would be fine. But it seemed like it was always in the background, both visually and in the conversations. Fordham will pay for your transportation to a different worship service if you aren’t Catholic, and the guide asked twice if everyone was ok with going into the chapel. So I don’t want to give the impression that they were forcing it on anyone. But for my agnostic D, she thought it was going to be too much for her. So it’s off the list. I liked it, and think it would have been good for either of my boys. But not for her.
Awesome trip reports, thanks for sharing. I am reminding others - particularly newbies to this thread - that this is @dadof4kids ’ kid number 4 so he has developed this excellent expertise over time. I am very envious of all of his visits!!
My D is a first year at Smith. There are SJWs but it’s certainly not everyone. It is however, extremely ‘woke’ and frankly very LGBTQ+. Not sure my D knows very many straight cis-gendered students. That either appeals to you or not. She embraces it. The academics are very challenging but the students are not competitive with each other, mostly not type A strivers though they are serious students, and the profs are very supportive, not trying to ruin your GPA. Many of the benefits of the housing system are going by the wayside due to COVID and dining services changes to reduce costs. But she still loves the social life (lives in the Quad) and the housing is very very nice compared to most schools, just losing some of the traditions I think. D wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. She didn’t ED b/c she never got to visit due to COVID but in retrospect she says she would have if she has known more about it.
We toured BMC, thinking D would love it. She hated it. Came across as extremely introverted, quiet, sheltered. Campus is too big for the small student body. Scripps was similar (felt like a cloister). D loved Barnard and Smith-- they are way more extroverted student bodies and campus cultures. Didn’t see Vassar or MHC.
Our cousin graduated from Haverford and we also toured there. Cousin loved it and went on to MIT for her PhD. Still has her friend group from Haverford. Wasn’t a fit for my D. The area was too boring and the campus was livelier than BMC but still seemed too sedate for her.
Yep. Similar vibes from Wake and Richmond. As parent, with both our S and D (and future child as well in a few years) we REALLY wanted both to love those schools. S did, but ended up at Cornell. D did, but she’s enamored with her UNC acceptance right now and has likely crossed Richmond off. Waiting to visit UNC again until Wake RD decision comes in, and will hit both. Her interview with Wake was amazing. She said the interviewer referred to specific parts of her essay and asked her to expand on them- but in a very energetic and engaging manner.
It boggles my mind when you have the old, staid academics looking down on these students through their bifocals and not really caring about the experience. Wake and Richmond hit it out of the park.
Thanks for that!
You are correct, this is not my first (or second, or third) rodeo. All 4 kids pretty different with pretty different interests though, so I get to keep recreating the wheel every go around when it is time to pick a college!
Thanks for the additional info. She goes to an anti-woke HS, and would welcome the change. Her sister is at Amherst, and said it was a pretty easy adjustment, I think it is probably similar there. D is cis-gendered, but I think probably indifferent to how many of her classmates would be. What she would embrace is a community that embraces LGBTQ+. Those are good info points though, because some kids would be uncomfortable with that.
I think she can handle the academics at Smith or Amherst. The issue may be that might not want to be as serious of a student as those schools require you to be. That remains to be seen though, she’s still young. And frankly she may be willing to step up her game a bit if it meant she could go to Smith.
We visited DePaul and Saint Louis University in the same trip:
DePaul: UP for both D and me. DePaul has been high on D’s list for awhile–she says she wants city life and seasons (coming from CA). Our tour guide was meh, and had an accent that made him difficult to understand sometimes, but the AO doing the presentation after the tour was excellent; this was when my D got more excited. The required freshman course called Discover Chicago sounds very cool, the Lincoln Park campus is pretty and in a vibrant attractive neighborhood. It sounds like internships are plentiful and there are lots of fun things to do. We are not Catholic and the vibe was not offputting to us. I still wish there were more dorms available, but living in an apartment in Chicago as a 20 year old sounds super fun.
Saint Louis University: SAME for D, UP for me, but now D has crossed it off her list, and even though there’s a lot to love about this school, I understand why it’s no longer a contender. This is the only school tour we’ve been on where students are actually present and this was great. Many of them wear their SLU gear and seem happy and friendly. Our guide was terrific and was greeted by name multiple times by passersby. This was an admitted students event, as was our visit to DePaul, and SLU’s was far superior. We went inside dorms, the prospective students had lunch in the dining commons, we talked to actual students in D’s intended major. None of this happened at DePaul, unfortunately. D is interested in the 6 year DPT at SLU (not an offering at DePaul) and it sounds like an excellent program with a very low attrition rate (and SLU has its own hospital). There is SLU Madrid and D’s merit scholarship could have been applied there for a year or a semester. But I don’t think D clicked with the students at SLU, who seem very wholesome and very Midwestern. And about 50% identify as Catholic (and SLU provides extra scholarships to kids coming from Catholic high schools). Also, after a couple days in Chicago, St. Louis could not compete for my D’s adulation. I would like to spend more time exploring St. Louis, but I guess it won’t be because my kid is going to school there!
If we could combine the best of DePaul with the best of SLU, we’d have the perfect university!
@Ally86, it sounds like you decided not to check out Loyola Chicago? Do you have another trip planned to see more of the schools on your daughter’s list?
Saint Louis University- Loved hearing the feedback on SLU! My D22 is interested in 6year DPT program too. It was her first college tour (this summer) and she loved pretty much everything about the school. We are not Catholic nor are we religious so that might be the one negative but we didn’t get a strongly religious vibe . We went to the medical campus on our own since the DPTs spend their last 3 years there. A faculty member saw us and gave us an impromptu tour showing us all the different labs and going into further detail about the program. We plan on going back one more time in April so we can see the campus when students are present.
Wiliam&Mary- Way Up. We just got back from visiting. My D22 mainly applied to humor me as I loved the campus when I recruited there (20 years ago) and thought it could be a good fit for her. She’s STEM girl and thought it would be too humanities focused for her. She also had heard the students were quirky and wasn’t sure about that. First we had lunch in Williamsburg and walked around the town. She thought it was really cute, liked all the restaurants, loved all the dogs… We saw students out and about and they all looked so happy. We then went onto the campus and saw the sunken gardens where students were gathering with friend, playing sports, studying- she loved the vibe. Our tour guides were enthusiastic and people she could relate too. She loved the campus- the residential feeling, the running trails and most of all the welcoming friendly students. She’s still a little nervous about it being a STEM fit. Of the 20+ kids on our tour, she was the only one interested in STEM . She will have to look into that more if she is accepted.
UVA- Down. She realized that she would be more comfortable at a smaller school. 16,000 is just too big for her. It didn’t feel nearly as personal or welcoming as the smaller campuses she has been to. We did meet with a Department chair for her major and he was awesome so she felt like she would have gotten personal attention academically. Socially though she felt like she could be overwhelmed.
I guess Loyola was never a contender, not sure why exactly, because it checks a lot of boxes.
We are trying to plan other trips but it’s challenging with her school, and my work! She’s been accepted to Gonzaga and Willamette, neither of which she’s seen, and we are still waiting on all of the public CA schools. Feeling rather overwhelmed actually…
I would be pleased if my daughter had loved it. I wish she could articulate more about what turned her off, but she’s not a big talker. She didn’t like St Louis though. After O’Hare, the St Louis airport was sleepy. The downtown is a little depressed. If SLU were in Chicago she probably would jump on it!
Yes, Chicago is more vibrant. My D is a runner so she was sold on Saint Louis when she saw Forest Park.
Not sure your D will like Gonzaga’s location. We are from WA and have been to Spokane several times for sports. It’s no Chicago or even Saint Louis- talk about a sleepy airport. The winters are pretty brutal too- cold, wet, long and grey. That being said, the kids we know going there like it.
I know what you mean about feeling a little overwhelmed at this point. It’s wonderful to have options but it can make things harder too. And there’s 4 schools she won’t hear from till end of March so that may open up even more options.
I can’t fault her for any of her other reactions … particularly her reaction to the way Wes is laid out, though it grew on us. It is a bit, shall we say, ad hoc in its overall design. Though it does have some gorgeous and well kept buildings representing the full spectrum of architectural styles. But if you don’t like it you don’t like it.
However, the comment about Adrus is one I bet she’d rethink if she ever were to attend a game in the fall. A football game against another NESCAC on Andrus on a crisp fall day, with College Row as a back drop, is a relatively unique and quintessentially collegiate experience. A baseball tiff in the Spring isn’t bad either.
But I’m glad she found her spot. Vassar is beautiful and a great school.
Great write up and shows where “fit” fits. Hard for me to imagine a kid would be equally excited about both W&M and UVA. So different. Equally great.
Yes, I think you’re probably right about Gonzaga. I’m waiting for her to be won over by a program or a group of students, but so far it’s not happened (the SLU DPT is by far the best program she’s been accepted into, but she’s not swayed). Maybe if we had rented a car and seen more of St Louis that might have made a difference…
Another question about Spokane: does it feel decayed, like it’s seen better days? Boarded up storefronts? This was our impression of St Louis.