Columbia College vs. School of General Studies

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia School of General Studies
441

<p>Finally what I personally feel. And I would love to hear a response on this, agree or not. </p>

<p>I have not yet decided and I am leaning towards not going. Many of you have similar feelings. </p>

<p>The different diploma is an issue but not a big one. Do the CC kids deserve a better diploma because they have harder admission standards; the school right now has decided they do. Unfortunate and unfair but a reality. </p>

<p>The no finaid. Really unfortunate, but from my experience GS is not strictly a money making endeavor. I believe they are giving the best aid they can right now. Could they find and pursue ways do to better? Heck ya, but is a University - I think money of us fail to realize how difficult and long and bureaucratic the process of doing anything at institutions like this is. Trustees, committees, deans who want to get promoted, fuggeddaboudit no one wants to put themselves out. I was in the military I have seen it worse. I think there are deans at GS and CU who genuinely want to help students get that second chance and succeed. If they could give more aid they would be but fixing this problem is slow.</p>

<p>The truth is, I have not even stepped foot on campus but this is how I feel. The Columbia curriculum is hard, really hard any CC or GS student will agree. Maybe you have easy classes and a joke of a prof once in a while but that many classes and that amount of work is not easy for anyone. Maybe most CU alumni do not look down on GS at the end of the day and maybe most employers would never know the difference if I write CU on my resume. </p>

<p>BUT I would know. Call me idealistic but I would know. Am I throwing away the opportunity to go to a great school, in a great city, with great classmates and get a great education with amazing job opportunities afterwards? As strange as it is to say, right now it seems I am. I have read the admissions profile for a CC student, I don’t have those grades nor will ever be able to take back my time in the military (nor would I want to). At the end of the day the reputation and prestige of Columbia has come as an ivy league school for highly achieving high school students who have gone on to do great things. While I too may go on to do great things, according to Columbia regulations I do not belong in the same school as these younger students. The differences between our two schools CC and GS warrant the difference in reputation. According to everyone I have spoken with I will feel the difference between the two schools while attending and I will feel the difference as an alum.
I do not want to get hired by a Wall St firm meet one of my many bosses who went to Columbia (as many wall st. guys are CU alumni) and he says “hey I hear you went to CC too”:
Me : I went to GS, actually,
Boss: Where?
Me:GS, the school for nontrads at Columbia. I was in the military for a few years and it was the right school for my needs at the time
: “o I see”
Or potential client….
Me: I have a degree from CU, blah blah blah
Client: hey me too, what year?
Me: GS ‘09
Client: GS ….hmmm….ok
While this may never come up or will come up once or twice in a career. It is not worth it. 15 years down the line most alumni will not care and I can meet someone from CC or GS and smile and chew the fat. I will not care but I will know.As hard as this is to convey I made the decision to go to the military and have been explaining myself ever since. While I am so proud to have served, the explaining myself is something I knew would come up in many circles, almost all circles except for other vets or poor republicans ( some dems too.)
It is a great school and could be really great. I am thankful for the opportunity they offered me. Yes I could brush the discrimination off, but I don’t want to. If Columbia and its students decide that GS students are different but equal to CC students because of experience as opposed to scores, then I think that will be a huge and positive step. Thanks guys</p>

442

<p>soory for the spell and grammr mistakes, I am tired...of thinking about GS.</p>

<p>Hey guys its only college, we'll be fine. :)</p>

443

<p>ok robby one last time,</p>

<p>"I know community college grads who outperform harvard grads."</p>

<p>yes we all do, that's usually because in any firm which hires both, the H grad will be one of their worst and the comm coll grad will be one of their best, same with all others. On average grads from better schools do better, to me that's what defines a better school.</p>

<p>"but salary and the ability to find employment usually are. [tied to the degree]"</p>

<p>there are no arbitrages, unless you're in a very pedigree dependent industry like consulting, performance is all that matters in the long term, dictating salary and ability to find employment. </p>

<p>"I think they see the words 'general studies' and group GS students into a continuing ed category--the category usually associated with easier classes and distance learning."</p>

<p>this is no reason to call GS students columbia college students, a simple explanation differentiating gs and continuing ed would get you the response that apm516 got from jp morgan, i.e. 'we don't discriminate between undergrad schools at columbia'</p>

<p>"Do I really have to argue that the GS diploma is inferior? I mean, really?! Are you serious? "</p>

<p>let's get it right this time - i doubt, but never disagreed that the gs degree might be perceived as inferior. If it is, the columbia administration is not systematically making it inferior, you have only your alumni to blame. degree would be superior if gs grads were superior. </p>

<p>"always thought it signified the accomplishments of a student while at that particular school. By your line of reasoning, confidentialcoll, minorities admitted under affirmative action legislation should have an asterisk next to their school name on their diploma too. I can't imagine anyone agreeing with that!"</p>

<p>everyone within CC (or seas) is chosen based on the same set of broad criteria, they don't say hispanic apps will be judged with a heavier weightage on leadership positions and sat II scores than for other races, if they did, only then would a separate degree be warranted. Your comparison to AA is not analogous. When you haven't attended the school, but probably only contacted a few employers (small sample), who were confusing it with continuing ed (mere misunderstanding), I don't see how you can be so adamant about the gs degree being inferior. And even if it is, that doesn't mean gs is being discriminated against.</p>

<p>"yeah, I'm illiterate--they don't teach us to read good in India, which is why it's a reoccuring problem, not a recurring one."</p>

<p>LoL, well said cerb.</p>

444

<p>Does anyone go to school to get an education anymore?</p>

445

<p>es four: I did, and it looks like apm wants to.</p>

<p>apm: Run for GS president. Please. And while you're at columbia, go to the wall street recruiting events--you'll see perceptions of all CU students are very positive: your phone call was out of the blue, and they see all CU undergrads CC, SEAS and GS the same way and hold them to the same standards. The latter may be an issue because, like you said, admission standards to GS are different. But in your case, specifically, the bulge bracket and the big three love recruits who've served in the armed forces: you work hard, you work in teams, you play by the rules and can get things done. That's worth more than any diploma handed to an uppity little *****.</p>

<p>...and the Freshmen thinking they're god and GS and barnard are not: a lot of these kids are in for a shock when they find themselves with students just as smart, if not smarter then themselves. They need something to hate on (doesn't help that many are probably experiencing the end of the adolescent hormone flood), and unfortunately, for those who understand what GS is about, GS takes a hit. That in no way reflects its standing outside the CU gates, however, and no one cares to see your diploma.</p>

446

<p>...heck, I don't even know where my diploma is!</p>

447

<p>cerberus....when you find that diploma, do us a favor, scan it, blur out your name, post it on flicker or photobucket, and then send us the link. </p>

<p>Lets see how bad or good this Whooaa GS diploma looks.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>btw, im serious :)</p>

448

<p>I was accepted to GS! Let's see how much money I don't get!</p>

449

<p>Does anybody else think this whole diploma language issue is akin to debating the difference between whether or not to purchase a red BMW or a blue BMW? I mean come on despite whatever color one decides on, the car is still the same price and in the end no one cares about the color of the car but who is driving it. So the idea that just because the GS diploma is in english and not in latin like its CC sibling means that the GS diploma is inferior is pretty dumb. the only thing that will make a diploma inferior is the person who has it and whether or not that person has the ability to use it to his or her advantage. </p>

<p>i am more concerned that a bunch of obviously smart individuals are wasting their time and energy debating something so trivial.</p>

450

<p>First you are 100% right. </p>

<p>But, I dont think many on this forum are worried about the language on the diploma per se. Though there may be some classics or philosophy majors who believe such an academic pursuit should, as historically the case, be followed by a recognition in latin. Artium Baccalaureus. </p>

<p>What I think many are concered with is a lasting and documented difference between GS and CC. Lets ignore that there actually are differences for a sec. </p>

<p>to be honest if a CC diploma was in English and a GS was in latin....TRUST ME, the GS kids would want an English diploma. </p>

<p>With an actual or preceived difference right now between the schools, many GSers seem concered with the inferiority. I dont think a GS student is trying to trick anyone or hide from anyone that they were admitted to columbia due to life experience/circumstance in addition or despite of thier high school scores. But after taking the same class and dealing with the same grading scale, I dont think many at GS want such a concrete and obvious difference on their wall or at the bottom of the closet whereever they put the piece of paper. </p>

<p>Tough to explain, but while a red BMW and a blue BMW might be the same and cost the same amount of money and both FRICKEN AWESOME cars. Imagine if they only sold red BMW's to good looking people. You are going to find a lot of people, who really want and deserve and can afford a BMW, but cuz of life circumstances genetics. They are not eligble. You would have a few BIG MAMA's maybe saying "I dont care what you think, I knoooow I look good " gimme that blue BMW. but most people would go with a mercedes. </p>

<p>Now finally let clarify one tiny point, YES the SEAS dip is in English. But this is a Bachelor's of Science. And English is the offical and professional language of the sciences and it makes complete sense to have their diploma in English. </p>

<p>For a BA from an Ivy the tradition is latin and I think GSers deserve it. Now if CC wanted to change to english that would really be stupid and I wouldnt even consider going to a school where the admin would take the tradition of latin and change it to english. j/k :)</p>

451

<p>Look at it this way everyone....at least we can READ our diplomas. :-P</p>

<p>Seriously, though. You are right, apm516. I have actually been using the Toyota/Lexus example (I like the BMW one and it is more apt to Ivy colleges). I know for a fact that within academic circles, all GS students are highly regarded and so is the program, but the concern becomes "real world perception." Is that really something that we all should give a darn about? Probably not. But the reality stands why should we pay the same (and probably more due to lack of FA), work just as hard (again, harder if we want the Dean's list), and have to fight for housing just for some people not to view the degree as equal or those people needing it explained to view it as equal? Simply put, Columbia should not go out of its way to make this distinction between GS and CC students. That's all. Everything else...well...transfers usually deal with similar stuff, so that is a completely different issue.</p>

452

<p>apm</p>

<p>thank you for your thoughts. i agree with you - the surface issue of the language on the diploma is indeed quite simply a surface issue. the real crux of the problem that GS students face is the perceived inferiority of the value of the GS degree. i am sure any mature (and aware/educated) person would be able to recognize that there is no true difference between a CC and GS graduate. unfortunately, the world is filled with much more uniformed and ignorant people than open minded and progressive people. and with that said, there will always be people who will distinguish between white and off white or red and fire engine red. the point i am trying to make (and this is not directed at anyone in particular) is that one shouldn't live their life in reverse. meaning: if people expect that others are going to be more impressed because they have a CC diploma instead of a GS diploma and THAT is the driving force in their lives than sorry to say it but those students (or prospective students) are **** out of luck. the only ones that are in control of their lives are the ones who live them not those that think going to a job interview with a specific degree that a specific company is looking for is going to get them anywhere. I for one refuse to work for a company that would only hire me because i had a CC degree and not because i have a GS degree. not because of idealism but because of realism - that company has a ****ed up management culture to only hire because a specific degree and i would be going nowhere very slowly. </p>

<p>Yet I must confess that while i say this, i am not completely objective. I have been very fortunate to have experienced true success very early in my life (I became a managing director of billion dollar investment fund by my mid-twenties - i dropped out of community college my second semester - i was just recently accepted to GS and will be attending in the fall). so i do not know the stress of finances or the perceived value of accomplishment attached to graduating from Columbia (because i don't need to go out to the work place after this to find a job). however, what i do know is that success has absolutely nothing to do with the fine print but has everything to do with a person's perspective on life. and if a person feels inferior because he or she went to GS instead of CC (despite the obvious justification) then the reality of that person becoming successful is very low. </p>

<p>finally i would like to clarify one point. there seems to be a misconception that GS students cannot transfer to CC. i suggest everyone go to the following link: Columbia</a> University School of General Studies and go to Transfer Within Columbia tab.
essentially what it says is that there is a possibility to do so. however, whether or not someone has been successful in doing so is an entirely different issue. i am sure someone would need one hell of a compelling reason to get approval.</p>

<p>my solution to the perception problem is for a bunch of us to get together and after we all graduate create a bunch of successful companies, give a bunch of money back to GS and make it look as though everyone missed the memo on where the cool people are coming from. only then will people stop looking at GS as a "second chance" but a s true breeding ground for students who understand the real world and not just their parents nest. we could all be Ivy League rockstars!</p>

453

<p>I rest my case. Dear God, THANK YOU. </p>

<p>Hey, so on a side note, about the red vs. the blue car, i heard that in some states (maybe all?) insurance is higher on the red cars because apparently, 'statistically' owners of red cars tend to have more accidents. </p>

<p>Bah. that's what happens when you can't one up your competitor</p>

454

<p>"my solution to the perception problem is for a bunch of us to get together and after we all graduate create a bunch of successful companies, give a bunch of money back to GS and make it look as though everyone missed the memo on where the cool people are coming from."</p>

<p>Where do I sign up? -- Nice post.</p>

455

<p>agree! nice post bqad13</p>

456

<p>It seems most recruiters don't care whether you come from GS or CC/SEAS. From what apm516 heard, they apparently don't even aware of GS. </p>

<p>I applied for FA at the last minute (June 2nd?) and still haven't heard anything from them.(my status remains unchanged and no emails) Why is it? Does this mean I am getting nothing? Not even $500?! We are out of town, so hopefully, the letter's already been delivered to my home by now.</p>

457

<p>alpha, please let us know. how much you get? and how long it takes? In addition to your Fina AID app. Have you sent in the $200 deposit?</p>

458

<p>Check online. I have received nothing in the mail and have been able to see all of my financial aid information online (as of today.) Additionally, I also learned I was put on the waiting list for housing..... Unfortunately less financial aid than I had hoped for and being wait listed for housing, I may not be able to attend this fall...</p>

459

<p>They told me it would take 2 weeks. I didn't send in my financial aid app prior to being accepted. Working on it now.</p>

460

<p>apm516, asked my grandmother to open letters from Columbia, but none of them was from the FA office. I also checked online, but mine hasn't been changed. It just says that they have received information regarding my interest in receiving federal or private financial assistance.
Almost 6 weeks have passed since I submitted my application, so I am going to contact them now.</p>