<p>^how do you know that prestigious universities look down upon non traditional students (even if they deny it)...</p>
<p>I was told by a Harvard Admissions representative that I had little chance of transferring to their school and that I should consider going to UMASS Lowell for undergrad. They'd consider me for grad school.</p>
<p>I was told by UC Berkeley that I could transfer 60 credits or none at all to their university. I would have 60 by the time I transfered but not all are transferable. Therefore, I start from scratch, or I don't attend at all. I kid you not.</p>
<p>Dartmouth admissions representative told me I was welcome to submit a transfer application, but not before rattling off a bunch of statistics regarding the slim chance anyone will take my application seriously. When I asked if any consideration would be place on my time in military service she avoided the question entirely.</p>
<p>This is merely anecdotal evidence. Perhaps I've generalized too much, but many of my former service members have run into the same walls as I have.</p>
<p>I'm bumping this thread because nobody bothered to answer my and other people's questions. GS applicants have feelings too.</p>
<p>Go ahead and apply to GS. You might get in. Unlike myself. If you are not admitted, you could look into the Harvard Extension School or Northwestern GS program, which would allow you to take classes before you apply to their degree program.</p>
<p>^
I'm sorry to hear you didn't get in. Are you also a veteran? What did your application look like?</p>
<p>jaykoblives-</p>
<p>You should apply. There are quite a few veterans in GS. Go for it!</p>
<p>^ Definitely going to apply for the Fall 2009 semester :)</p>
<p>jaykoblives, have you thought about applying for University of Pennsylvania's CGS program? It's now called CLPS and I think that you would be a good candidate for it. I have a friend that has a similar background to yours (military, good gpa, etc) and he got in.</p>
<p>^
I'll be applying there too. Also plan on applying to the Eli Whitney program at Yale although I think I have long shot odds getting into it (they only accepted like 5 Eli Whitney folks this year).</p>
<p>My heart is pretty set on Columbia. Just love New York City and wouldn't mind exploiting the government's commitment to pay my rent (gotta love the new Post 9/11 GI Bill). Of course, I'm not going to complain if I don't get into Columbia but get into University of Penn., Amherst College, or some other great school. I'd probably get more financial aid from those schools anyway. Columbia is the only school I'm applying for ED with though.</p>
<p>I'm seriously considering Columbia GS, and therefore would appreciate clarification on the comments from earlier in the Frankenthread which are quoted below. FWIW, I've read all 33 pages of the thread but still have questions on this point.</p>
<p>To what extent is a GS student isolated from the non-GS population? Is it just that a GS student doesn't live in the dorms? Or are GS students more generally separated from or even rejected by CC, SEAS and Barnard students? If so, to what extent?</p>
<p>About my situation: I'm returning to school to change careers after several years in the workforce. I'm still unmarried, without children and planning to focus on school full-time. I've lived in NYC for a couple years in total. I'm specifically interested in Columbia for the rigorous academics, particularly the Core. Dorm life is not particularly interesting at this point in my life, so not being part of it isn't a problem.</p>
<p>However, I'd be interested in being able to join campus activities. Another aspect of Columbia that appeals to me is its history of activism and social concern. Is this realistic, even though campus activities are likely to consist primarily of traditional-aged undergraduates?</p>
<p>Along a similar vein, are people I'd meet through classes likely to reject me just because of being in GS or being several years older? (Obviously this is a non-issue if the other student in question is themselves in GS. But if GS doesn't generally have its own classes, I'd primarily be taking classes with traditional-aged undergraduates, right?)</p>
<p>FWIW, within the past couple years, I was at Columbia for a couple of activities to which I was invited. The people I met, many of whom were traditional-aged undergraduates, seemed at least superficially friendly. It wasn't difficult to talk to them at all.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for your time.</p>
<p>GS_Banding, May 25, 2008: "Listen to Burb Parent s/he is a wise person. GS != CC. You will not be rooming with CC students, you will probably not be dining with CC students either and you'll probably miss out on all the 'fun', impromptu activities that are characteristic of traditional college life. If that's what you're looking for, then GS might not be for you. I think of GS as a 'come get your stuff done and move on with your life' kind of school."</p>
<p>collegegrad1, May 29, 2008: "You're only excluded from the 'Columbia community' in the sense that you don't live on campus. When you're married and 29 years old, I don't think you're looking for this anyway."</p>
<p>precious10, May 29, 2008: "gscanadian, I can see where you're coming from with being 20 and worried about the college atmosphere. However, I am not sure if some of you noticed this, and perhaps GS_Banding has some input on the subject, but what I have noticed is the CC students seem to complain about 'older' GS students. I wouldn't see why you couldn't have a very normal social experience minus the dorm life. Then again, I am not there, so I could be wrong."</p>
<p>Any comments for students considering GS for a second bachelor's degree? How do graduate schools view GS students?</p>
<p>General Studies</p>
<p>What a thread...i have been a frequent visitor of collegeconfidential and until today i didn't have a reason enough to join.my story goes that am no longer in GS i successfully transfered to another good school.it was tough coz i got accepted to four of(cornell,yale,berkley,brown and amherst)and two had issues with my credits..I had to mention them just to give you a taste of the calibre of people at GS.As an international i got something close to nothing in FA and this really influenced my decision,i had to make a choice as to whether am gonna leave this big city with all the opportunities or stay and probably drop out.Back then we used to whine as to why we only had a steplar in the lounge yet the other students had microwaves n stuff,the fact that the debate today is about latin diplomas which i really urge the currents to give their signatures in support is really telling as to the progress being made.Mostly i would commend the student council which is really working to help better the GS experience.what dorm life are you people talking about?I had known quite a good number of CC/SEAS students who spent almost all their time in butler for they never really had any friends up in their dorms.That is the unfortunate story of columbia if you really don't have social skills there will be no difference between you and someone living well beyond morning side heights.To the contrary if you are good with people your chances of making many friends and possialy getting laid..lol(a very rare occurence in columbia regardless of college)in your freshman year are really high(columbians know better).So don't let the dorm life thing influence your decision.In my thinking, i believe the off campus residents have a way better college experience than most students who live in Carman.Nobody will even notice whether you live off campus or on campus.Am also reading about this stuff of CC kids having a superiority complex and stuff.so here is the low down,yes they do and it has always been like that whether its towards SEAS or barnard or GS...but the truth to this is that all this venom you see is usually online where nobody can see them so they can basically say anything.In person you will never/seldom hear all this bs..and nobody will be there to remind you that you are a GSer.You don't eat in a GS branded table,you dont wear a GS badge,you don't get taught by a professor wearing a GS hat and neither do the other undergrads.whether some kid who loves bsing people over the wire likes it or not you all are in the ivy league,taught by ivy league professors(who really care little about undergrads and dont care what college you are from).GS is not CC and CC is not SEAS and neither is SEAS a barnard.All these are colleges in an ivy league university that cater to only different students.and why would you seek top dollar with only that economics diploma.whether you have a GS or CC diploma without that MBA you are as good as someone who went to new delhi university(Again just do your research)..there is a way the business school partners with GS to help you obtain that MBA faster something not available to the other colleges)for all i know there are quite a number of non prestigious columbia colleges out there so when asked what school we went to,most likely we all say columbia university just to be clear,and thats just it.before making a decision only to regret later get your facts right.know the schools,know the issues,know the faces.i would recommend you search youtube for any videos regarding columbia,visit columbiaspectator.com and search anything GS and dont forget to read the comments..visit bwog.com and do the same.go to the gslounge.com and read all the meeting minutes and look for anything that may concern you including housing(way better than the crack house i used to call my room)and also do not forget to check out boredatbutler.com and faceliss.com on these two you can post and ask anything,but don't expect any serious answers(anonymous posters)if u get bs,remember what i told u its the internet anybody can say anything that they don't really mean..but mostly its towards barnard..Go to GS if you think FA is not a biggy.you will love new york and columbia the GS experience aside.Misinformation can be very dangerous.So make sure you have done your homework and if you don't think you got the smarts to handle stuff that harvard college or any other Ivy league offers then don't apply coz its gonna be really tough.Good luck and i hope this was worth it and will help someone make a sane decision.forgive the english,i typed this on my phone and in a hurry:)</p>
<p>^
Great post, man. Thanks.</p>
<p>As a possible GS applicant, I can't say I really give a rats ass what some 19 year old CC kid thinks of me anyway. I'll be 26 when/if I attend Columbia. I'm also married with a well established social circle. I won't be going to Columbia to make friends (though I'm not opposed to making friends with the right people). My decision to go will be based strictly on academics and the fact that NYC is awesome.</p>
<p>As for FA, that issues does worry me slightly. However, I'm hoping that the dollar-for-dollar matching system that's part of the new Post 9/11 GI Bill will make it worth it for me. If they offer me 8,000 in aid, that immediately turns into 16000, plus 7000 for in-state new york tuition, I'm already at 23000. Won't need on campus housing, so that's a big chunk of tuition right there. Hopefully, I'll be able to come up with the rest if I am accepted.</p>
<p>Nobody seems to really judge you based on what school you attend. I have more CC friends than GS friends. The academic experience will be the same whether you attend GS or CC.</p>
<p>However, administratively, GS is a bit of a nightmare. I have no experience with CC admin, but GS is awful. That and the financial aid is non-existent. I was so excited about being accepted to Columbia that I feel I made a terrible mistake in taking on these loans. </p>
<p>I will be trying to transfer out of CU to a school that will offer me more money to attend. The worst part of all is that we constantly get University-wide e-mails talking about improvements to financial aid for CC/SEAS. In fact, GS seems to rarely be mentioned in correspondence from CU. </p>
<p>My take: If you have the money, GS is a great place. If I had a wealthy family or a few million dollars to spend on education, I would gladly stay. Such is not the case for me, so I will be looking elsewhere. </p>
<p>Hope it helps.</p>
<p>es four: Thanks for the input. I'm sorry to hear about your having to transfer.</p>
<p>Join the club es four. I am a GSer and the financial burden is too heavy so I am transferring as well.</p>
<p>jaykoblives, call the VA and Columbia staff about the financial aid matching program. I will allow you to find the answers for yourself and you may realize shortly that you should not depend on that match. However, if your living expenses are paid, then you can use E-5's BAH and 8k to nearly pay for tuition.</p>
<p>Future GSers, the financial aid problem is very real. GS entices new students with a decent scholarship in the first year, but it seemingly decreases in following years. As other GSers have recently stated, GS is a great program for any student that can afford it. Many GSers have stated that discrimination and condescension do not exist and I partly concur. I could care less about a young adult's opinion of me and I usually receive a "Wow!" after I tell life story, but the "separation" is very apparent. Housing is very limited for GS students and so is financial aid. When you walk into Butler or step into Philo or run into Mathematics and know that your fellow classmates (CC and SEAS) get a very significant discount while you pay full price, you are being discriminated against. That feeling is a major reason for my eventual departure from GS, but I will be back in the Ivy because graduate school really matters. :-D</p>
<p>There are many prestigious universities that offer more financial aid. Remember this, doing well at a inexpensive school still provides a gateway to an Ivy League graduate program. The name on your degree does not make the person, the person's name on the diploma matters the most.</p>
<p>"Remember this, doing well at a inexpensive school still provides a gateway to an Ivy League graduate program."</p>
<p>Even if true, there are two risk factors which should be considered.</p>
<p>First, any number of factors can interrupt one's education before completing a graduate degree. If this occurs, the highest degree one has is the undergraduate degree (assuming even that was completed). In this case, one is in much better shape if said undergraduate education was at Columbia or another top-notch university.</p>
<p>Second, there is no guarantee of getting into an Ivy League graduate program. Far from it - Ivy League graduate admissions are extremely competitive. (You also have to compete with students who did well in undergraduate AND attended top-notch universities.) IOW, if one gives up the chance of attending an Ivy League university or other top-notch university as an undergraduate, getting another chance as a graduate student might not occur.</p>
<p>Do these risk factors outweigh the risks of having significant student loans? Each student has to answer that for themselves. It may depend on the quality of the alternatives available. The above seems to assume that there are adequate in-state public universities or other inexpensive universities available. For some of us, this isn't the case.</p>
<p>Also, financial aid is so dependent on one's situation that generalizations don't always apply. For example, I'm seeking a second Bachelor's degree. Federal financial aid is completely unavailable in this case, and universities themselves generally don't provide any financial aid in this case. GS is one of the few exceptions. Put another way, a scholarship of, say, $8,000/year from GS is $8,000/year more than a second Bachelor's candidate can get from most universities. So the financial aid situation is actually BETTER for me personally at GS!</p>
<p>In my case, the cheapest US-based option which meets my requirements - Wisconsin, as an out-of-state student - would cost $21,820 per year. Going there instead of GS, assuming scholarships of $8,000 per year or so, wouldn't save me enough money to change the big picture. (McGill is cheaper on paper. But considering that I don't have work authorization in Canada, it probably isn't dramatically cheaper in practice.)</p>
<p>I've basically accepted that I'm probably going to have to work and save for at least a couple years to make this happen. Even then, reasonable loans will probably be necessary. For me, it's worth it compared to other options. For you or someone else, it might not be.</p>
<p>@benjaminetanyaho: My scholarships have gone up every year. Maybe your grades went down?</p>
<p>interestedparty, I was given an initial scholarship and the scholarship for the following year went down 33% and I maintained a GPA above 3.0. Maybe my financial need was not apparent in Skip's eyes and I have engaged him numerous times to no avail. One would think that the scholarship amount would rise, but it didn't and I know for a fact that other scholarships have decreased.</p>