<p>Does anyone have any perspective on the physics major at Columbia, Dartmouth or Duke? Son has visited all three, and is still having trouble deciding between them. The financial differences are not that great, since we have a high EFC, but the travel costs to Duke from Massachusetts are more than driving to Columbia or Dartmouth. Each school seems to have a wonderful program, and S would probably do fine at any of them. He's on the quiet side, so I have some reservations about Columbia. Any info about acceptance into graduate programs for physics from these three schools?</p>
<p>I can't offer anything on Dartmouth or Duke. My son is a first year at Columbia, and debating between physics and several other majors. There is a great faculty/student ratio in the physics department there. Many science students do not choose to go to Columbia as undergrads because of the core curriculum (my son chose it BECAUSE of the core curriculum, which he's really enjoying). But that means that the physics departments loves undergrads who choose to major in it -- especially astrophysics, which gets even fewer students. He won't get lost in the deparment, once he declares his major, though that is a different issue than your worry that he might be lost in NYC or on campus.</p>
<p>Certainly Columbia physics undergrads get into excellent grad programs. But, I wouldn't think you should worry about that, because it's not like the medical school scene. The number of people going into the physical sciences is shrinking.</p>
<p>First consideration: Your son really should consider whether he wants the core at Columbia. (Did he apply to SEAS or CC? They have different requirements.) With a major that has as many requirements as physics, that doesn't leave a lot of room for a lot of non-required courses. Beyond that, these schools all have very different atmospheres, of course. </p>
<p>Hope that helps some...</p>
<p>Thanks for the response, Sac. He applied to CC -- he actually likes the core, and we all enjoyed the days on campus. I'm just concerned that he'll get lost in the crowd. There was another thread with articles about kids that are "slow to warm up" and that describes my son perfectly. Like all moms, I just want him to be happy -- my gut says that he'll find it easier to fit in at Dartmouth, but he really likes the other two also. Your info on the department is really helpful -- I think that as a physics major he'd have the same people in most of his classes. I'm also debating the growth experiences he'd have in NYC. Dartmouth and Duke would mirror his suburban upbringing, but I think Columbia would help him learn how to navigate in a large urban environment with the safety net of the college. Did your son know anyone before he went to Columbia, and how has he settled in socially? Also, I just realized that both Dartmouth and Columbia offer a B.A., not a B.S. Do you think that makes any difference? Thanks for any help!</p>
<p>I guess you really have to know what it is that your son is looking for. Can't offer you a lot of insight on being a physics major just a parent of a child whose lived her whole life in NYC and is now a very happy camper in Hanover. In all fairness, she was looking to get away from the city because she knows that she will be back.</p>
<p>The environments at Columbia and Dartmouth are like night and day</p>
<p>Columbia:Core Curriculum
Dartmouth: Distribution requirement</p>
<p>Columiba: NYC right out side of its gates
Dartmouth: bucolic and really rural</p>
<p>Columbia- Nice kids, the city is a big draw so you won't find people hanging around campus on the weekend</p>
<p>Dartmouth: I think the fact that it is rural is a big contributor to the amazing sense of community on the campus and the level of cohesiveness that the students have with one another. Definitely more laid back.</p>
<p>Have you visited the boards for each of these schools to get a feel for the mind set of your child's potential classmates.</p>
<p>We were given a tour of Columbia's Physics dept. and labs by Prof. Blaer, the head of the undergraduate Physics program when we visited a year ago. He seemed quite pleased that a capable student who was interested in Columbia was considering a Physics major, and encouraged my S to apply. (He did, and was accepted, but has chosen to attend a different school.) A few Physics students my S talked to briefly indicated that they were really happy with the dept. I was impressed with the attention offered my S as a potential major: I think, as sac has said, that it is a small enough dept. that your S would have many opportunities and would be welcomed in Physics at Columbia.</p>
<p>Unable to provide any commentary on Duke or Dartmouth, sorry.</p>
<p>SJmom -- My son loves Columbia. But he did not apply to Duke or Dartmouth or to any LACs. He did choose Columbia over Stanford, however, because he wanted the urban experience as well as the core. He felt he'd be comfortable at Stanford, which reminded him very much of his high school. (He grew up in Berkeley, which is a quirky mix of small city and college town, but went to a private high school that was in a wealthy suburb). But I guess he thought it was time to challenge himself beyond that comfort zone. He knew no one when he went to Columbia and it was with some trepidation that we watched him fly 3000 miles away. We suggested, and he did sign up, for one of the pre-orientation camping trips. So, he did know a few people by the time Orientation started.</p>
<p>He chose the most social dorm, though he also marked on his form that he is quiet. Don't know about that, but more of an introvert than extrovert. I think his suitemates actually ARE quiet. He's liked being able to study in his room, but has made more of his friends on one of the noisier floors.
He's turned into a real urbanite -- going to plays, museums, jazz and comedy clubs, fancy restaurants, and of course the bars where the first years tend to hang out and socialize. He's also pledged a fraternity, which we can't quite figure out, but he says it's because his friends pulled him into it, rather than that he went out looking for a fraternity to join. So, there are frats there for students who want them, though they are a very small part of the scene. (They are growing at all the Ivies, I've read.) He will be living in a dorm, not the frat and said it just gives him more options of things to do.
He also plays music there. I would say he found his first winter hard. But your son should be used to that.<br>
I don't think the BA vs BS matters. Columbia has an excellent physics department, which is what counts, and there are opportunities for undergrads to do research. Since my son is still undecided, he hasn't really spent any time in the department, but there is an undergrad physics organization and there are weekly teas, I think. Wonder if your son might e-mail some physics students? The intro physics classes are lecture classes with recitation sections. The students don't get labs until sophomore year. (There is an accelerated physics which is probably smaller, but my son didn't feel well enough prepared in physics for that. He is in honors math, which has about 40 students and is probably the most difficult undergrad math class at Columbia.)
A benefit of the core is that it guarantees some small classes freshman and sophomore year. LitHum and Contemporary Civilization are capped at 22 students, University Writing at 12, and Frontiers of Science is a lecture with small sections. The core is a unifying experience -- whether people love it or hate it -- they're all reading the same books at the same time. He actually phoned one day to announce: "I love Herodotus!". I wouldn't think everyone feels that way, however.
There is not much advising at Columbia until students actually get into a major, and then it varies by department. Physics is one of the best that way. Physics encourages students to come talk to them in the first year. We finally prodded our son to do that, and he recently had a long talk with a physics prof (on a Saturday!) about whether or not he should go into the field.
I just think it comes down to your son and his sense of what kind of experience he wants to have. Dartmouth seems as if it would be cozier, and Duke has the big Greek and sports scene. Columbia is very much an urban adventure and an intellectual challenge. I would say that I think my son is getting an absolutely wonderful education and, though not every class or professor is equally good, of course, it is pretty much impossible to come out of Columbia without an excellent eduction.</p>
<p>Don't know about the physics departments at Dartmouth or Duke, but there's good work going on at Columbia. I have a good friend who went straight from physics at Columbia to the PhD program at U Chicago.</p>
<p>sorry, had to leave.
I just wanted to make clear that I'm not pushing Columbia for him, just describing it, especially in physics. I'm a firm believer in a student finding the place that he feels is right, because that's the place where he will take advantage of all there is to offer. It doesn't matter whether Columbia is doing cutting edge physics if he decides on a different major or he can't get himself to approach a professor or he's just all around miserable. There are summer programs all over the country to get undergrads involved with physics research so, even if it's not happening at Dartmouth, if he does well there he could probably spend a summer in a lab somewhere else.</p>
<p>And the verdict is?????????</p>
<p>Thank you so much for everyone's information, especially Sac. If S chooses Columbia, I'll definitely feel more comfortable about it. Our S spent 3 days at Dartmouth Dimensions, and he is expecting to make a choice by Tuesday -- he's the kind of person who really needs to spend about 3 months at each school taking classes in order to make a decision. He has always been one who needs ALL of the data before committing to something, and this decision just has too many variables. The bottom line is that he would have a wonderful, though different experience, at each school. My H and I have narrowed it down to Dartmouth or Columbia -- Duke is similar in some ways to Columbia, but not within driving distance (not a huge factor, but at least a differentiator). My H (degrees in math) spent some time going through the course catalogues to see how the programs differ, and there seems to be a little more flexibility in the Dartmouth program. There is at least the possiblity of earning a M.S. in 4 years if everything comes together. One thing that makes the choice difficult is that a good friend was also accepted at Columbia, but needs more financial aid than has been offered so far -- I'm sure they picture themselves having a great time in NYC, but I'm not sure my S would enjoy it as much on his own. H and I are leaning toward Dartmouth -- S seems to be equally interested in all 3, so why not go with the more convenient, and slightly better financial option? I'll let you all know Tuesday!</p>
<p>You can't go wrong with any of those 3 schools. Graduate opportunities will be the same from all three. Duke and moreso Columbia would have an advantage in that he would have the opportunity to do research with internationally renowned professors.</p>