They are all administered by the college board, but I meant the wide variation of how many kids get a 5 or 4 on each exam.
Also kids with even an A- at our school often get a 5 on many APs, except may be in Chinese.
Of course, students not tracked into the advanced or AP track may have less opportunity to take AP tests in 11th grade. Even for AP precalculus, having it in 11th grade means being an a +1 math track, usually determined in middle school.
The tests for achievement in high school level material, last known as the SAT subject tests, were recently discontinued.
Right – they (the privates anyway) can craft a class any way they want to. If they want to take TO kids who scored an 1150 over a kid who turns in a 1500, they can.
But to applicants and parents (or anyone else trying to gauge selectivity/chances), TO further obfuscates the process.
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This statement seems inconsistent with what you actually said earlier, which was a comment about wide variation between schools. I think you’ve drifted in your argument, which is fine I guess. You also said something about the grading on the AP exams being too course, which is actually exactly what I mentioned in my original post as a suggested area of improvement by College Board. Sometimes I can’t tell what you’re arguing against, honestly. I guess some folks like to debate.
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Yes, TO has given rise to many do-I-send-my-scores-or-not-decisions which are complicated by non-sensical advice from some AOs (only send scores if it’s above last year’s median, which would ultimately lead to only 36s being submitted)
It’s important for applicants to understand how important test scores are in the admissions decision at a given school, ask these questions in admission sessions, read blogs, and look at any data the school provides to help inform these decisions…not dissimilar to what applicants to test required schools when one is categorizing those schools, or even deciding whether to apply.
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adding this with the intent for it to be humorous and am not poking fun at anybody at all…
Of course, the grading of the course can be too coarse. 
I’m a poet and didn’t know it.
I’ll see myself out now. 
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When I said the grading is coarse, I meant that if some 41% get a 5, it stops being helpful in assessing differences in student ability, effort and understanding etc.
Separately, schools can be more rigorous than the AP as well.
Sure, but high pass rates sometimes happen in very difficult subjects that are usually only taken by the strongest students.
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Absolutely. At our (public) HS there is 100% pass rate (with all 4s & 5s) among students taking AP Calc AB & BC and AP computer science. These are much smaller groups of students than those taking more popular AP courses (i.e. AP Lang).
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Of course this assumes AP scores are back in time for the application, so they must be taken junior year or earlier. I expect more students will seek AP courses in grade 9 and 10 now. This does not reduce student stress.
Re: coarseness (yes I spelled it wrong before) - I would be in favor of a less compressed scaling than 1-5. I agree with Neela that instead of giving 41% of students a 5, couldn’t there be a grade like a % out of 100, with perhaps a designation that CB feels a certain % cutoff corresponds to what they feel is a A in a college class? That still gives the colleges a number to work with for allowing credits or placement, yet also gives more of a “score” to students (for example if colleges were comparing two kids for admissions purposes). It allows for different cutoffs in different subject areas (to the point someone made about who takes certain tests) yet gives more information as well. I guess what I don’t understand is why there are more granular scores for ACT and SAT, which measure so few topics (and in which the math is so easy that it tends to assess test-taking over anything else) but for actual classroom topics we have a multi-hour, many questions+essays/problems test, and all they give is a number between 3 and 5 for those who pass. I think we all want to see some national measures of achievement…I’m just not as certain that I know what a high ACT or SAT score means in terms of what a person knows and how they can think or problem solve in a particular area (whereas I know what a high AP calc or AP Bio score means…)
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Again, this creates a problematic situation as many schools - such as my daughter, and I’ve heard a number of other local schools - do not allow students to take any AP classes in 9th and 10th grade. And, for a number of private schools, no AP classes are offered at all to students (there seems to be a movement away from APs at some private schools, and many publics are limiting them to students). I guess if you’re at such a school you could self study and take exams, but then you miss all of the other components of a learning experience beyond prepping for a test. Not sure that’s any better than just sticking with the SAT/ACT.
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There is no perfect solution to the testing question. At the same time, this issue seems largely confined to “elite” schools – for the vast majority of colleges, who admit the majority of applicants, it is a moot point.
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I guess this reveals a reason AP tests aren’t a great replacement for SATs. Freshman and sophomores aren’t offered APs at our school.
Yes, we are largely talking about elite schools
like Columbia with a 2.96% acceptance rate in 2026. In any other endeavor, you want as many data points as possible to help make a better decision in a super-competitive process. Yes, standardized tests have deficiencies. But so do the other data points they are using: GPA, extra-curricular activities, letters of recommendation, and personal essays.
It makes no sense to me why the tippy-top schools would choose to go TO. If it’s no good, don’t accept ANY test result. If it’s partially good, use the results selectively for what you find to be useful to help make a better decision. A disadvantaged kid with a 1350 SAT score could be below the 25th percentile for Harvard. But what if that 1350 represents a SAT score that is 4 STD above the mean for his/her HS. The score just identified a kid who is a potential diamond in the rough! Isn’t that meaningful information to glean from a test score? Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just use the information it provides judiciously. IMO, TO is the worst possible solution. It makes the process more opaque and makes reasonable people wonder what are these schools trying to hide. Meanwhile, every applicant is trying to game the system to his/her own perceived benefit. The AO at the school we recently visited admitted that they apply the TO decision selectively depending on the applicant’s background. This just adds additional uncertainty and potential distrust in the process.
For the less selective schools, I have no problem with the decision to go TO because their admissions process is less stringent.
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Our school (private) got rid of AP years ago - they refused to “teach to the test” - we don’t get gpa, class rank nor AP/honors. We rely on the school profile showing colleges the rigorous curriculum.
It usually works well as the students all take (and do well) on the SAT/ACT - except at some of the state flagships (OOS) where they recalculate GPA - without APs, our student’s gpa is low compared to the course rigor.
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I see that as the most likely outcome-TO is employed selectively to help craft the class that is the demographic goal at the very top schools. For the vast majority of schools, including most LACs, the impending demographic cliff will result in a much less competitive application process anyway, so TO won’t matter.
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If what you say is actually true…. there is a fine line between crafting your class and gerrymandering your class. Obfuscating your methods only breeds more distrust.
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But let’s face it, if people didn’t care about the colleges with highly selective admissions, there would be no need for College Confidential.
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