Columbia University vs. University of Michigan

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
101

<p>LazyKid, the OP did not say that Michigan would cost $30-$40k less, he said that if he attends Columbia, he would graduate $30-$40k in debt, while if he attends Michigan, his folks could easily cover the cost. </p>

<p>The USNWR ranking is not an accurate ranking. Its formula is designed to rate private universities and as a result, public university will naturally not do well. It would be like rating football players based on skills required for hockey players or golfers. It cannot be done fairly. Not that being ranked 20 spots apart in any ranking means anything. The US has thousands of universities. There are 300 national research universities altogether. Schools like Columbia, Penn and Duke have been ranked 10 spots above Brown for years now. That does not mean they are any better. </p>

<p>Like I said before, whether one top university is better than another is a matter of opinion and personal preference. Take my mother. She is a proud alumna of Columbia University, and yet, when admitted into Columbia and Michigan, she strongly recommended I attend the latter. Clearly, she did not feel Michigan was beneath Columbia or she would not have been in favor of my going there.</p>

<p>Just as you find it annoying that many here dismiss the concept of selectivity, we find it equally as annoying that you dismiss the Peer Assessment rating. That’s quite natural since the younger crowd (those aged 15-30) aree devided into two groups; one group believes that academic quality determines institutional and reputational strength and one group believes that percentage accepted and average SAT/ACT scores determines institutional and reputational strength. Clearly, the majority of students at Michigan belong to the former while you fall in the latter. For this reason, it is safe to say we are not going to agree with you or you with us. The good news is, most people above the age of 30 tend to agree with the former…</p>

<p>…so, do us all a favor (yourself included) and quit posting in this forum. Your life experiences will no doubt shift in the coming years, at which point, you will be more than welcome to share your thoughts with us.</p>

102

<p>The issue is that Columbia is undergoing a tremendous upswing in its reclamation of its prestige and standings as the top tier school, it once had. And it is definitely on the rise and it takes time for people to accept this. But, I really think and agree that for a motivated , good student opportunities that will open up during one’s life time are equal wheather he/she goes to Columbia, Michigan or HYPS. But for UG , alteast for now, for the most of the students Columbia (CC ) opens more doors initially, I think may be because Columbia attracts higher caliber students and have smaller student body?</p>

<p>Just as Alexandre advises others to wait, may be we should all wait and see what shakes up.</p>

103

<p>Parent62, I do not think universities at Columbia’s or Michigan’s level experience “upswings”. Those two universities have been considered among the very best since the late 19th century. Of course, should you mean an upswing in selectivity, then I would agree that Columbia’s upswing started in the late 90s and is reaching its peak as we speak, while Michigan just started last year and its peak remains to be determined. </p>

<p>A Columbia degree in of itself will not open more doors. There isn’t a door a Columbia degree will open that a Michigan degree cannot with equal ease (or difficulty). I would hope that given its smaller and selective student body, Columbia students, on average, do better upon graduating from college, but that had better be the case. </p>

<p>One thing I find strange is the representation of Columbia alums at major graduate programs. It does not seem to outpace Michigan’s by that great a margin. For example:</p>

<ol>
<li>Currently, there are 17 Columbia alums enrolled at Yale Law school vs 9 Michigan alums</li>
<li>Currently, there are 19 Michigan alums enrolled at Chicago Law school vs 6 Columbia alums</li>
<li>Currently, there are over 150 Michigan alums enrolled at Michigan Law school vs fewer than 20 Columbia alums</li>
<li>UVa Law enrolled 2 new Columbia’s alums into its 2013 class vs 5 Michigan alums</li>
<li>Currently, there are 12 Michigan alums enrolled at Johns Hopkins Medical school vs 10 Columbia alums</li>
<li>Currently, there are 182 Michigan alums enrolled at Michigan Medical school vs 11 Columbia alums</li>
<li>Since 1995, 44 Michigan alums have enrolled into WUSTL Medical school vs 10 Columbia alums</li>
</ol>

<p>I wish I had more examples to illustrate my point, but that is all I could find so far. </p>

<p>With regards to job placement, Michigan colleges of Engineering and Business are hard to match, let alone beat. I am not sure how Michigan LSA fares vs Columbia CAS where professional placement is concerned since neither publishes professional placement date, but since many of Michigan’s “business minded” undergrads enrolled at the University’s business school, I am not sure that such a comparison would make sense. Bottom line, Michigan has programs with excellent professional placement, should that be a priority. </p>

<p>I stand by my initial statement, not much separates Columbia from Michigan in terms of academic excellence, reputation/prestige or graduate school and professional placement.</p>

104

<p>“I would hope that given its smaller and selective student body, Columbia students, on average, do better upon graduating from college, but that had better be the case”</p>

<p>Yes, that is what I mean on average, columbia students fare better.</p>

<p>Second, regards to upswing, I mean by many excellent students and even faculty(??) did not consider Columbia in 70s and 80s because of NYC and its reputation at that time and so the rep of Columbia and what it could do was also in a downward spiral compared to early 20th century where Chicago and Columbia were in the top tier schools.</p>

105

<p>And I know we are splitting hairs here and we should stop and I will not post any more reply and I felt Alaxandre asked some one else to stop posting and I just felt the need to say that we should all wait. And why am I talking about the reputation here ? That was debated here in this thread at length and I felt the need for some perspective about Columbia.</p>

106

<p>This debate is way too long for how much of a difference there is between the two. I’ll give the prestige/rep to Columbia by a little bit though, just because it’s private and an Ivy.</p>

<p>There’s a LOT more factors to consider for deciding between the two though.</p>

<p>If somebody honestly thinks that Columbia is that much better to continue to come in here and defend that stance, that’s saying enough. If people were saying that Michigan is the same as Harvard, nobody would spend this much time debating against it… If the difference between Columbia and Michigan is debatable, it’s just that and there’s no point in trying to convince each other. Don’t quote USNWR rankings either… useless.</p>

107

<p>

No, the OP clearly stated in post #5 that “UofM would be less than 1/3 of the cost of Columbia”. He estimated that he “would likely be 35-40K in debt going the Columbia route” because “his family is willing to help pay for some of Columbia if he goes there.”</p>

<p>So the total cost to the family is quite a bit more than 30-45K. The question then is Columbia worth the extra cost to the family?</p>

108

<p>Scottj, I agree that in terms of reputation/prestige, Columbia has the edge. That was not the case in the 80s and 90s, and that is perhaps what parent62 was alluding to. I remember back in my day, Columbia and Michigan had roughly identical reputations, but in the last 15 years, Columbia has enjoyed a boost to its reputation. Chicago has enjoyed a similar boost. As a result, Chicago and Columbia, along with Cal and Caltech, are four universities that are not quite on par with HYPSM but slightly stronger than the likes of Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Michigan, Northwestern and Penn. This said, I think Michigan is in a great position to make a run for it thanks. Michigan is the only school on the list not to have had its boost yet, but it would appear that it is on the verge of happening.</p>

109

<p>you spelled Kool Aid wrong</p>