<p>personally I think Columbia and Cornell are very similar … with the big difference being the location … Columbia in a great urban setting and Cornell in a great college town … I would guess a visit to both would lead to a glear preference for most. (PS - for Arts & Science folks Columbia’s core also is a major thing to consider)</p>
<p>“…the big difference being the location …”</p>
<p>…and The Core. For my D1 this was the single biggest consideration.
You want it, or you don’t want it.</p>
<p>agreed with mony, they are very different experiences.</p>
<p>but to add one more thought toward columbia. it is the fact that with 1/2 the number of ugrads, it is still far more diverse in a lot of markers. it is the intimacy of its programs that ultimately creates a rather unique and vibrant intellectual community, one that i would never give up for in the world.</p>
<p>and with a lot of connection to cornell (and upstate ny) i say this with complete respect, but the experience is far more mundane than columbia; it lacks the intimacy, vitality and in its truest sense diversity that a life at columbia and nyc may offer. your avg. days and nights will yield predictible results in ithaca, in new york it is a mystery waiting for you to bounce around and find it. </p>
<p>academically i would say the two schools are a bit of a wash - cornell is probably a better physics institution for graduate students, but columbia has probably a stronger ugrad population even in the sciences. which means you aren’t necessarily far better off at one place or the other academically. </p>
<p>cornell just by the nature of it perhaps prepares one better for the idyllic life of academia - because you can experience it in many ways as a ugrad (there are fewer distractions). columbia will impress you as an 18yo with what life can offer, and how to maximize the experience.</p>
<p>in my mind - college is about far more than just academics, if it was the case then universities wouldn’t have all the accoutrement that they do, nor would they look at non-academic indicators as reasons for admitting you. it is for this reason that i think you really ought to consider how truly transformative and unique life in new york city is. of course you could work there when you’re done, but it is not the same. you will never get your life back from 18-22 to do over again - so choose the place that will help you find yourself more, that will challenge you more, and that will still give you a top flight education.</p>
<p>" i say this with complete respect, ," etc…</p>
<p>…the fact is my daughter was attending school in NYC, hated it, and transferred out to Cornell, and is much happier. She said that NYC was a horrible college town. She prefers a campus-centered college town experience to “the concrete jungle”, to spend this particular time of her life. And she has plenty to do there. So I guess this is an area where people may differ. YMMV, and all.</p>
<p>NYC is a great city though, come live there when you have $$ and can better enjoy it. Then you can take vacations in ithaca.</p>
<p>Or, go there now. And, hopefully love it.
Or love Ithaca. I do.</p>
<p>Wherever you choose to spend the next years will be transformative. But in different ways perhaps. The choice is yours.</p>
<p>nyc is not a college town per se. though i’d argue morningside heights approximates that college town feel.</p>
<p>but there are a lot of colleges in nyc that really have horrible resources, lack any distinguishable campus, are truly sink or swim experiences. and also are not as deeply ingrained into the intellectual, political and working world of the city as columbia is.</p>
<p>so bringing up your daughter’s experience is a complete tangent. of course we could find anecdotes that challenge both of our general narratives - and with four dozen kids in my hs class that went to cornell, i know a lot of not so nice things about it. </p>
<p>the truth being that columbia+morningside heights+the rest of the city is a rather incredible combination, a delicate balance between intimacy and opportunity.</p>
<p>lastly: having also been a young professional in the city, you will never have the freedom and degree of adventure to enjoy the city. when you’re living in a small cramped apt, barely making ends meet, that crazy idea to go try and sneak into a movie premiere is not necessarily at the top of your mind. the bs you have to deal with landlords that try to scam you, city taxes that take just a bit more bite out of your pay check, and any number of nuisances that honestly unless you are wealthy enough to own a very large apartment or the like, will always make new york less comfortable for young professionals. </p>
<p>there is something about being in the city when you are coming into your own, but do not quite have the financial responsibilities yet that is ideal.</p>
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<p>Columbia may have half the number of undergrads as Cornell, but it has three times the number of graduate students. At the end of the day, professors at Cornell presumably have more time to dedicate to undergraduates. Every residential hall at Cornell has live-in faculty and faculty associates who dine with students on a daily basis. Every Greek house at Cornell has a faculty adviser, and undergraduate research is one of the hallmarks of the Cornell experience, especially in the physical sciences.</p>
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<p>I don’t see how an urban campus with thousands of individuals unaffiliated with a university can be more ‘intimate’ than a collegetown with institutions that have survived generations.</p>
<p>Columbia may very well offer a more diverse experience in some ways, largely thanks to the opportunities of NYC. But neither its academics nor its variety of student experiences are as diverse as what is offered at Cornell. </p>
<p>From engineers to horticulturists, philosophy majors to hotel managers, thespian arts scene to nationally competitive sports, organic farms to particle accelerators, Cornell is a very diverse school and there is nothing predicable about what you may find yourself doing in Ithaca on any given weekend.</p>
<p>[insert bucolic research university campus] sounds just like cornell!</p>
<p>what is more intimate than living within 10 min of everything you could ever need or want? have more small classes than cornell, have a core curriculum that ensures this intimacy, have class and social life merge within the halls of butler, the ramps of lerner. have your entire first-year class live within a city block of each other?</p>
<p>live literally where history was made, and a history that predates ithaca and cornell by over a century. to meander down the streets of the city that the first president of the country was inaugurated, walk a few meters and peruse Trinity Church where Columbia first got its start. to take a stroll along the Riverside Promenade and have a look out at the Palisades of the Hudson River Estuary, or any number of parks at your ready disposal that though not the beauty of the Finger Lakes, replicates, approximates, and provides the same level of distraction as the raw woods of New York’s central valleys.</p>
<p>to experience in truth a duality - to be separated from the world, and yet in the middle of it all, to walk around morningside heights during the day, and see the busy throngs of reporters following a speaker, or find yourself on the roof of Wein late at night and see how peaceful the night is, or be up at 5am and walk around the quad to get this sense that you are the only one in the world around as you stand at the sundial.</p>
<p>what is more intimate than living within a self-sustaining community of your peers? have more class offerings in more types of subjects than columbia, and have fantastic student activities that allows you to build your friends around your own interests. have class and social life merge within the halls of uris and olin, the terraces of willard straight and the cafes of green dragon, the big red barn, stellas, and the temple of zeus. have your entire first-year class live within a frisbee’s throw of each other, and you can actually throw frisbees outside of your window?</p>
<p>live apart from the greater world so you can study it in peace and without unnecessary distraction, enjoying an intellectual mecca that has attracted scholars for generations. meander down the gorges and above the glacially carved hills of ithaca, pondering this world’s existence, and your own. use the same equipment that the like of Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman and Hans Bethe used to make their miraculous discoveries. take a stroll down into the neighborhoods surrounding campus or into downtown Ithaca, which can provide the same entertainment, nourishment, and distraction as Morningside Heights.</p>
<p>And then return. Return in your memories and in your later years to a place that nourished and questioned, that supported and challenged. That makes grown men cry at the sight of it all again. Because unlike Odysseus, Ithaca is your beginning, not the end.</p>
<p>wow that ended really lame - nevermind the fact that at the end of the Odyssey, Odysseus doesn’t end in Ithaca (this fact is unclear at the end of the Odyssey).</p>
<p>and the day a person seriously compares ithaca and new york city as equals, will be a sad day indeed.</p>
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<p>You’re right: Ithaca > New York City </p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>I think the lesson the OP should take from this (generally) thoughtful discussion is that alums such as monydad, muertepueblo and CayugaRed2005, on the one hand, and admissionsgeek, on the other, are very fond of their alma maters, and are willing to say so. The OP should have a pretty good sense, based on this thread alone, of some of the key similarities (academics) and differences (environment, size, core vs. no core, etc.).</p>
<p>My Columbia son, from a suburb thousands of miles away from Cornell or Columbia, did not even consider Cornell. He’s ecstatic with his Columbia experience, largely for the reasons identified by admissionsgeek (as well as his fraternity and rugby experiences).</p>
<p>I don’t believe the choice of Columbia vs. Cornell should be based on an analysis of the relative strengths of a single academic department. The physics departments (as well as most other academic departments) are just fine at both schools. I would choose based on some of the softer factors discussed above.</p>
<p>muerteapablo actually goes to penn and puts down cornell any chance she gets…this is probably one of the few threads I’ve seen her write nice things about cornell…</p>
<p>back on topic…if you’re going to be majoring in physics or any of the hardcore science/engineering majors, you should choose cornell</p>
<p>(excuse me for the lack of capitalization)</p>
<p>"so bringing up your daughter’s experience is a complete tangent. "</p>
<p>She was in class across the street from you. she might have been in your intro language classes, 2-3 other classes, your clubs for all I know. Maybe the guy she was dating lived in your dorm. Maybe you ate in the same cafeteria (hers). She was in the same place, in the same city.Her experience with NYC is as relevant as yours. However, unlike you she also has experience living at Cornell which she prefers.</p>
<p>Truthfully, I am not very fond of Cornell, and I actually left it for Penn. But I certainly recognize its strengths, and one of those is its physical sciences.</p>
<p>But ultimately I agree most with pbr (pabst blue ribbon? and yet you have a son, so I wouldn’t take you for a hipster. does anyone else <em>drink</em> pabst, though?). The decision should not be contingent on minor differences in ranking - yes, Cornell’s physics is better, but not by a margin significant enough to affect your undergraduate experience. Think instead about the “softer factors.” These are invariably idiosyncratic. Examples include city vs. rural, small vs. large, and so on. There are also cultural aspects that may not be apparent to you as a foreign student: Cornell’s social life is undeniably anchored in the fraternity scene, although it is certainly multifaceted - there is an artistic community, political groups, and so on. Columbia’s is more urban, and generally understood as more “intellectual.” Columbia College is slightly more prestigious than Cornell’s CAS. And so on.</p>
<p>“Cornell’s social life is undeniably anchored in the fraternity scene,”</p>
<p>??? Ok well I’ll deny it. It may be anchored in that scene if you are in that scene. And freshmen attend lots of their parties. Period.
That’s what, 30-40% of the students only? D2 hasn’t gone near a fraternity. Neither did I, afer freshman year. I think your perspective on this reflects the fact that that’s when you left. If you aren’t in a fraternity their influence after freshman year is near nil.</p>
<p>Fraternities are nice options to have, for those who want them. For one thing, they provide better housing to their members than the dorms do. Columbia has them too, My nephew and D2s boyfriend were members. But the majority of students at Cornell do not join fraternities, and they do just fine without them.</p>
<p>If you like them though. frats can be real pluses. I think my nephew found his experience at his frat at Columbia to be about the best part of his experience there. They made the place more personal, and he developed some strong relationships.</p>
<p>I suspect that much of my Columbia son’s happiness at Columbia is related to the sense of community he gains from his fraternity and his sports club. I can easily imagine a student without those types of anchors feeling adrift in college in NYC, which is why I read so much about the lack of the “sense of community” at Columbia. Whether it’s a frat, or a sports club, or a drama production, or a music group, or a political organization, etc., I have the sense that community can be created at Columbia (or Cornell)–easily. Like life itself, college requires proactive choices.</p>
<p>Muertepueblo, PBR is my second favorite beer. True hipsters enjoy Schlitz–in a can. I had a couple Schlitz’s tonight, by the way.</p>
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<p>Thankfully, this is the case at most school. Columbia has fraternities and poetry journals. So does Cornell. You can be happy at most schools as long as you are willing to look for what you want to be around. And you don’t hate the city or the countryside.</p>
<p>^That’s what I tried to state. Agreed.</p>
<p>At some level, it becomes a struggle between the city and the countryside. I hope all make the right choice!</p>
<p>… and The Core…</p>
<p>Wow thanks a lot guys! Really appreciate the perspectives from Columbians and Cornellians 
This is great. I’m sure your schools are proud to have you guys! I guess it can’t go wrong with either school, and I hope that when I made the decision I will be able to move forward with no regrets. Choosing one over the other is sure one tough decision to make. it’s definitely a sad thing to abandon the other, especially after researching and reading so much about the school. I guess that’s the greatest dilemma for me. Anyway, I want to commit to a school by this weekend so I can get things done asap (since im an international) i hope by then i would have a clear choice at the end of my mind albeit the strong attachment to the other school. 
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<p>anyway, thanks a lot guys!</p>