<p>“…and the countryside”</p>
<p>well sorta, actually the vibe of Ithaca to me is primarily that of a hip, small city, surrounded by gorges and national parks. It hits well above its size, in terms of what’s there. Of course what’s there is not NYC, but you can afford it all and wherever you go you will be among a higher proportion of your fellow students. When I go downtown there I might be eating dinner at Moosewod, not milking a cow. Just to clarify.</p>
<p>Ahhh, yes. Everybody thinks that their school is better, which is why we need an independent, impartial ranking system, say like… US world news. I wonder which school was ranked higher? Columbia. </p>
<p>@Monydad I can go to the particular school’s website and copypaste their ads, but I won’t because it proves nothing. I’m sure you’re daughter is having a great time in Cornell because she chose that school for reasons other than academics, but the OP’s main criterion is academics. That pretty much crosses cornell out of his list. Don’t misunderstand me, Cornell is a good college but it’s better off competing with schools like New York University, Duke etc</p>
<p>I’m sorry if the fact that Cornell is stronger than columbia in physical sciences disturbs your world view and sense of self. US News does not specifically evaluate strength of particular academic departments , but The NRC rankings go towards that end. For physical science & math Cornell was ranked #6, Columbia #14.</p>
<p>The links were relevant in that they go towards physical sciences facilities, which you claimed were better at columbia.They described two major facilities at Cornell that were
either absolutely new or just 6 years old. </p>
<p>Finally academics certainly did play a role in D2s decision. Her intended major is a very strong program at Cornell. Like physical sciences are. She is enjoying her courses at Cornell, equally or moreso than her previous courses on both sides of Broadway. Though she liked those too.</p>
<p>Columbia is a great university, however it is not equally great at everything.
Same can be said for Cornell.</p>
<p>Finally, I will say that after frequenting this board prior to and during D2s stay in Morningside heights, I’ve observed quite a number of people whose sense of self appears simlar to that seemingly exhibited by gedion9324, and some people might consider if this is who they want to hang out with. This played a role in D2 not applying to Columbia in the first place. To each their own, of course.</p>
<p>It’s absurd to say one of these is strong in physical sciences than the other. They’re both very strong. The differences at a graduate school level will vary by departments and on the exact research area and the faculty in that area. Very little of that degree of specialization matters at the undergrad level. More important for undergrad is the quality of the students, where C probably has an edge over C.</p>
<p>quality of students specifically majoring in physical sciences at each school is not quantified, but they are probably really darned smart, in both cases.</p>
<p>There are loads of quantitative indicators of overall student quality: Acceptance rate being a big one.</p>
<p>Arguably more important are SAT averages/high school rank - those factors aren’t nearly as subjective and often far more informative (see Caltech, and conversely College of the Ozarks). Of course, those numbers are also higher for Columbia.</p>
<p>
You’re comparing Columbia, largely an arts and sciences school, to all the schools at cornell. Stick with analagous concepts; don’t mix and match. If you compare the A&S stats, we’re not that different from columbia. Last year the acceptance rate was at 14% for A&S, and this year, lower. Moreover, we are not comparing overall academics, we are comparing the subjects of interest of the OP.</p>
<p>In the sciences, according to the “unbiased” USNEWS, we rank higher than columbia. Chemistry: tied for 10 w columbia; math: 13, columbia 11; CS: cornell 5, columbia 17; physics Cornell 7, COlumbia 11; Biology cornell 11, columbia 15. Overall cornell>columbia in the sciences. In the humanities, Columbia>Cornell. Grad school quality does affect undergrad quality, seeing as we are taught by professors who teach both grad and undergrad.
Gedion, stick to rational arguments, not these blanket, ad-hominem attacks on the university at large founded in ignorance and naivete.</p>
<p>chaotic - </p>
<p>would you agree that undergraduate quality is also endogenous? that it comes from the students who participate? in a sense, this being the leveling factor as columbia’s smaller (and by virtue cohesive, i.e. less of a range from top to bottom, and more cohesive in that students integrate more because of the core), and also that by most factors columbia is more selective, diverse and academically stronger, would render any minimal differentiation between 7-11 in physics rather mute? that’s my stance - columbia’s marginally better ugrad population means its marginally (i mean how laughable is it that you are distinguishing between two top tier sci programs) worse sci programs to cornell renders the two a wash. especially considering that columbia phys/sci folks are the most brilliant of the bunch.</p>
<p>in the end what is most important - they offer different experiences regardless of academics. and they lead students in different directions. in this regard the choice is rather clear between two rather distinct experiences. and the OP should read up from afar (unfortunately) what sounds more enticing, fully aware there is no wrong answer.</p>
<p>with all the bellicosity i could ravage against cornell, in the end it is a solid place, i wouldn’t pick it - but that’s as much a measure of the fact i grew up in Cornell’s backyard as the fact that my past experience at columbia makes me bleed too much blue.</p>
<p>I feel like there’s a lot of misinformation in this thread. Cornell has a slightly larger department, but that comes at the expense of a higher grad student: faculty ratio.</p>
<p>Facts from the American Physical Society Annual Handbook on Graduate Schools (which schools are obligated to provide information to):
Full-time assistant, associate, and full professors:
Cornell: 48, Columbia: 37
Graduate Physics Students:
Cornell: 181, Columbia: 111</p>
<p>I cannot find the undergrads:faculty ratio for Cornell, but I’ll eat my shoe if it’s lower than Columbia’s as Columbia only has about ~30 physics undergrads, resulting in more emphasis on undergraduate research and smaller class sizes. </p>
<p>USNews rankings of specific departments, unlike the college rankings, are highly suspect as they rely ONLY on polling of faculty members asking then to rate other schools, and only 31% of faculty polled actually responded. This is a far cry from the more formulaic method that their college ranking uses, which is at least mostly based on hard stats. The NRC rankings also mentioned before are ~15 years old, and anyone who is actually in physics knows that they are unreliable and plagued by accounting errors and other problems (they left out entire schools, some of which are very highly regarded).</p>
<p>While I am biased towards Columbia, I think the two departments are comparable in terms of research and prestige, and the choice comes down to other factors. I believe Columbia provides a much better undergraduate experience due to the city, as I have learned just as much from my 4 years here from living in the city as I have in my classes. Quite frankly, I didn’t bother applying to Cornell for undergrad or graduate school in this field, as the high-level research at Cornell can be found elsewhere, along with many things that Cornell doesn’t have. The nitpicking between the two departments above is much more relevant for prospective graduate students, whereas the focus for prospective undergrads should be more of a question of fit.</p>
<p>Dear me, monydad, someone is bitter. I understand that you’re being protective of your daughter but there’s no need to insult me, or other prospective Columbians. As for my self worth being connected to my school, that seems to be the case with you too. I’ve always found that the defenders of a school with less quality, are the most…rabid.
Your daughter had already gotten in Columbia before she trasnsferred. Since that’s the case its important you understand that I am in no way implying that your daughter is inferior. Her school is. The school that a student has gotten into might not necessairly reflect the student’s true ability and potential as is the case with your daughter.</p>
<p>To the OP, I urge you to go to Columbia’s website and check the physics department. I apologize if this thread has degenerated into a petty verbal match, but I have to respond, when a poster insults me.</p>
<p>I attended Columbia as a freshman and later transferred to Cornell’s engineering school. The two main differences between the colleges are: 1) Class sizes - much larger at Cornell in virtually everything and 2) Social life - very little to do at Cornell other than student clubs and some outdoor activities (I tried rock climbing, for example). I’d say the student bodies are roughly comparable in terms of academics and diversity.</p>
<p>Except for a writing seminar and an advanced thermodynamics course, every course I took at Cornell had more than 50 students. At the introductory-level, Cornell’s class sizes are at least double that of Columbia’s. Example: Intro Physics courses at Cornell had about 400-500 students (engineers, science majors) while their Columbia equivalents had 250-300 students. I made a point to take as many non-technical courses at Cornell, and I still had a hard time finding classes with fewer than 100 students. Only when I made it to the 400-level courses in Economics and History, was I able to sit in a classroom where the professor didn’t need a microphone during the lectures.</p>
<p>Socially, Cornell left a lot to be desired, and the Cornell/Columbia difference is obvious. I should mention that the weather in Ithaca is pretty miserable from November to March, and I found myself hating my decision to transfer in the middle of my sophomore year.</p>
<p>I shouldn’t bring this up–as I may be sounding quite insensitive–but the weather likely had much to do with the depression I saw among some students while I was there. I happen to believe that the recent cluster of suicides at Cornell were brought on by a combination of Cornell’s isolation and bad weather.</p>
<p>Personally, I think most students in the OP’s shoes would be better off at Columbia than at Cornell. But that’s just my opinion.</p>
<p>@ChaoticOrder and Mony Dad.</p>
<p><a href=“http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/03/18/cornell.suicides/index.html[/url]”>http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/03/18/cornell.suicides/index.html</a></p>
<p>Right on the comments section of the article a Cornell student wrote this,</p>
<p>"I graduated from Cornell last May. I was also diagnosed with major depression my senior year. </p>
<p>There are a lot of factors that make Cornell students susceptible to depression:
<p>That being said, the counseling services are excellent and really attentive. I had a great support team where my faculty advisor and social worker paired up to help me graduate on time. If you seek help, you will get it"</p>
<p>Well at least the the counseling is good. So you just have to hope that the counseling would work before the gorges start to look appealing…</p>
<p>To the previous poster- good luck and endure. You can still transfer out of “the easiest Ivy to get into”.</p>
<p>@gedion9324, post #53</p>
<p>You know when you point to anomalous outliers in your neighbor’s yard, they just might point at some in yours:</p>
<p>[Appalling</a> Crime at Columbia](<a href=“http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2008/10/19/recent-attacks-included-sexual-assault]Appalling”>Recent Attacks Included a Sexual Assault)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here’s another:</p>
<p>[Grad</a> Student Assaulted at Columbia](<a href=“http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2007/12/06/grad-student-assaulted-morningside-park]Grad”>Grad Student Assaulted in Morningside Park) </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nice try. There was no pattern, whereas suicide and depression seem to be common. So much so that Cornell teaches its professors to identify depression in students. “Now kids E=MC2…hey is that kid depressed?”. Detracts from the teaching don’t you think? </p>
<p>Even the admitted student, who posted before me, thinks its a bad idea to come to Cornell…</p>
<p>please guys - please stop posting on this thread.</p>
<p>@gedion9324, post #55</p>
<p>“Nice try?”… Do you really want to continue with this scrap?? Really??? …because sometimes people can find “patterns” where they are already looking for them. Neither fine school will win (and both are great and venerable institutions) when you continue with the card that you initiated in post #53:</p>
<p>[In</a> chilling detail, Columbia student recounts torture (msnbc)](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25068659/]In”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25068659/)</p>
<p>[NYPD</a> Investigates Columbia Noose Incident as Hate Crime](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301046,00.html]NYPD”>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301046,00.html)</p>
<p>“Do you really want to continue with this scarp?” </p>
<p>I’m frightened and intimidated.(heavy sarcasm)</p>
<p>“Both great…institutions”</p>
<p>Another nice try. Both are great, yes. But Columbia is greater</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Columbia is not better at the hard sciences. Cornell also is superior in architecture, and for engineering, and for veterinary medicine, and for industrial and labor relations, etc.</p>
<p>Nice try indeed.</p>
<p>Both institutions are, in fact, great and venerable, your immature snark notwithstanding.</p>
<p>OP if you go to columbia gedion9324 might be you rommate. Or someone just like him. there seem to be many here, based on posting patterns. Food for thought.</p>
<p>Re: jamescchen, his experience speaks for itself, it was what it was. However that is one transfer experience. D2 was also a transfer, has had small classes at Cornell,and big ones, it depends what you take. Coming is as transfer can be hit or miss at all schools. To wit, some comments on CC from a transfer to Columbia:</p>
<p>"My largest lecture had 400 students. It was taught in an auditorium where the professor gave very theatrical performance on a stage. The discussion section had 70 students. "</p>
<p>"Other professors were better (2nd semester Lit Hum, 1st semester contemporary civ), but I found that several did not take Core classes seriously. Basically, grad students and less experienced professors handle these courses, and many do treat it like a chore, coming in with the impression that their students will need to be spoonfed. "</p>
<p>"It’s hard to meet people. There’s no place where you can get to randomly know people. I hardly get to spend time with or even see my friends b/c our paths simply don’t cross. Many people I meet turn into acquaintances b/c there isn’t sufficient contact for us to actually become friends. Add to that the fact that most people aren’t friendly anyway - it’s chic to be jaded. "
“…the Columbia community- actually, it’s not a community, it’s just a crowd.” </p>
<p>" I don’t like my fellow students. So many people take one class in some random subject and think they know absolutely everything and proceed to talk about it as if they’re an authority. Intellectual culture at Columbia is basically knowing trivia- you know of some obscure topic, but not in depth and not in any constructive way".</p>
<p>“…it’s the sense of community that I’m really looking for. “Columbia” is not a real school, it’s a collective of individual experiences, some good and some bad. I guess I want a sense of belonging to a place.”</p>
<p>This is just one other transfer experience, the point is coming in as a transfer can be hit or miss everywhere. The issue is you do not have as good an opportunity to form the same level of social networks that freshmen get in the dorms. If you are not integrated socially it does not matter so much what there is to do, you will not have a good time. And if you are integrated socially you and your friends will find enough to do.
Fortunately, D2 fell into a good crowd of people right away, and is having a great experience there. She finds plenty to do, she is not bored.</p>
<p>When I attended, the upper level physics courses I took were sufficiently small. They were really hard though, that was more my issue than size. The 400 level math courses were larger, still lectures, but it didn’t really matter. In some of those subjects, in the end, you have to sit there and figure out how to do the problems, no matter how many other people are also sitting there in the room. If you can.</p>