Columbia vs. UC Berkeley as a potential CS major

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>Hello everyone!</p>

<p>I've just been accepted to both Columbia College and UC Berkeley’s School of Letters and Sciences, and I’m having a bit of trouble making my decision between them. By the way, I’m an international student, so I didn't apply for financial aid to either school. Right now, I’m interested in majoring in Computer Science, possibly with a minor/concentration/additional major in Economics. I'm going to repost this in the Berkeley forum as well, to get opinions from both sides.</p>

<p>Generally, I feel like Columbia has the edge; I love the Core Curriculum, the campus looks wonderful and it has a completely unbeatable location. For a while now I've really wanted to live in a big city (which I don’t currently), so New York and all it provides seems like a fantastic opportunity. </p>

<p>However, there are a few niggling doubts which prevent me from committing to Columbia wholeheartedly, the biggest being the strength of the CS department. Berkeley’s CS department is legendary, and its graduate school far outstrips Columbia in most rankings. Right now, I don’t know whether I would want to go directly into a job when I graduate or if I would want to pursue a postgraduate degree. If I went to Columbia and majored in CS, would I face a competitive disadvantage compared to if I went to Berkeley?</p>

<p>I’m also a bit worried about the social scene. I've heard that Columbia apparently doesn't have a centralized “campus spirit” or anything, while Berkeley has a lot of “go-team” spirit for its sports teams. I’m not a huge party-person, but I would like to be able to meet new people and make lots of friends in college – is Columbia a good place for that? That said, I've also heard that Berkeley is a “hard place to make friends”…</p>

<p>I’d really appreciate any help that anyone could give me. Thank you!</p>

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<p>Go to Columbia. UC Berkeley is going downhill since the California government is lessening the funding for UCs. The student faculty ratio at UC Berkeley is just horrible. People have to take a class with hundreds of people sometimes, and it is easier to get the classes that you want at Columbia. </p>

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<p>There is no doubt that Berkeley has a fantastic CS program. But, when you’re comparing Universities that are as prestigious as the two you mentioned, you really don’t want to get boggled down in the rating of one school’s department compared with this other school’s department, etc. One could argue that while Berkeley is tied for 1st in CS and Columbia is ranked 14th, the overall ranking of Berkeley is 20th, whereas Columbia is ranked 4th, and therefore Columbia is more prestigious overall.</p>

<p>But really, those kinds of arguments don’t get anyone anywhere; when the schools are this good, go for fit! NYC is an intoxicating place to live and it is the heart of America. If you’re drawn to that, and you love the Core, it seems like Columbia is the place to go. </p>

<p>But honestly, you can’t go wrong here. Congrats!! </p>

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<p>

Uh, no, it’s not. It has actually come through very well from the financial crisis of 2008. Berkeley just completed a successful $3 billion fundraising campaign and California voters passed Proposition 30 in November 2012, which increased taxes and stabilized education funding. Its ranking within USNWR has improved slightly since 2008.</p>

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Yes, lower division prerequisite lectures in math, economics and physical sciences are large. But, I imagine Columbia has some large classes as well with over 100 students.</p>

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Quite likely. However, if persistent and flexible, most get the classes they want and need at Berkeley.</p>

<p>OP, keep in mind Berkeley is also very urban. Downtown San Francisco is easily accessible via BART train with a station one block south of campus. Proximity to Silicon Valley for CS recruiting is a definite plus. </p>

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<p>ingeils - congratulations on your admissions to these great schools. It is interesting to me that these two options are so far apart geographically. Which brings me to my point which is climate. How important is that to you? This popped into my head because my son goes to a top university in a Northern urban setting but also considered Berkeley. He went to the Northern urban school but he is often wistful for the temerate climate in Berkeley. </p>

<p>Now who knows, if he had gone to Berkeley maybe he would be pining for the other school. It’s just something to think about.</p>

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<p>I am a parent that just went to a UC Berkeley night at my son’s High School. I saw that you mentioned you were accepted into Berkeley’s School of Letters and Sciences. The Berkeley rep characterized transferring between most schools on campus as being not too difficult, but that switching into Electrical Engineering and Computer Science was much more difficult. It sounded like the best and perhaps only realistic way of getting into that program is to apply for it initially. Maybe UCBChemEGrad, who posted here earlier, can provide some help on that point. IMHO NYC weather can be tough for the uninitiated, then again, nothing a warm coat and umbrella can’t take care of. Best of luck! </p>

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<p>I studied both economics and computer science at CC and I wanted to share some of my thought with you as you make your decision. </p>

<p>I think your initial thought process is a good one to have in terms of general characteristics of schools. If you enjoy the core and enjoy the city, then great, because Columbia epitomizes those two areas. I’m not sure if you’ve visited, but personally I think the Morningside Heights area is a great balance between urban NYC and a college town. It’s a 5-10 min walk to the Upper West Side and Harlem, and a train ride away to the rest of the city. In terms of the core it’s really a double edged sword. Many people love the experience of taking multiple classes in the liberal arts that otherwise they wouldn’t, but at the same time there is opportunity cost in classes you could have taken in your major. </p>

<p>That being said, I think Columbia’s CS department is great. It’s unique in the sense that both CC and SEAS have CS, and even though the requirements differ slightly to graduate, you can basically take anything you want from either school. Very rarely do you have classes that fill up too quickly for you to take (as long as you are relatively diligent in signing up), and in my experience I’ve only taken 2 classes over 100 people, one of which was the very first intro CS class, and the other being the very popular Jae Woo Lee’s Advanced Programming. Intro/core classes are generally close to 50-70 people, and electives tend to be much smaller. The Columbia CS department in the past decade has grown leaps and bounds both in terms of class offerings and number of CS majors. In our main engineering building (Mudd), we even have this large section of the building exclusively for CS students with lounges and study areas, which I haven’t seen for any other majors. </p>

<p>I imagine UCB’s recruiting is stellar, but my experience with Columbia recruiting has been great as well. I was always more of an econ person but I did try my hand at some CS internships. My grades were not the highest (a bit above average), but I got every single interview chance I applied to for major tech firms (too bad I suck at CS so I ended up failing the interview). Generally if your grades aren’t terrible and you express some interest in technology you’ll get plenty of interviews. Another interesting consideration is even though for sure SF is the hub of technology and startups, there are certain niche opportunities NYC does better in (and Columbia recruits well for); for example, technology jobs in finance (financial engineers/quants, algorithmic traders, general finance-related software development).</p>

<p>I can’t speak to post-graduate degree opportunities as I was not involved in academic CS matters, but I imagine they are comparable to most top programs. </p>

<p>In terms of community vibe, I would just say that Columbia has no athletic school spirit, or very little of it, but that does not mean at all that it’s difficult to make friends. </p>

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<p>UC Berkeley has two paths towards a CS degree–one in the Electrical Engineering/Computer Science college, which is more competitive to get into and is very hard to transfer into later as an earlier replier stated, but also another in the College of Letters and Sciences which is not quite as competitive, but has the advantage of giving you a broader and more balanced education which can lead to more creative thinking/problem solving kinds of things and is a great choice if you have other interests besides CS. Depends on what you’re looking for which one is best for you, but since you’re in at Letters and Science and apparently didn’t apply to EECS, L & S seems like a very good choice. You may still have trouble getting into the major junior year, but probably not if you keep your grades up. There are some classes taught by TAs, but despite the reputation Berkeley is full of profs who really care about undergrads and has lots of small classes–I never had a class with over 200, and the majority of my classes were 10 or 20; I had one on one teaching for an independent study (learning a Less Commonly Taught Language.) You may need to be persistent to get into the classes you want, but so long as you’ll take any section and make your classes a priority over sleeping in or having a job, you will eventually get the classes you want. It’s really not a huge problem. I’d vote for Berkeley over Columbia for Computer Science—name recognition in the industry as opposed to just in academia, nearness to the tech industry. Everyone needs different things, but I think for many people, the ideal preparation would be to go to Berkeley for undergrad in CS and get an MS at Stanford. (Or vice verse, but I think Berkeley first is best.) But if you love Columbia, go for it!!! It’s a great school, too. You always have to go by what’s right for YOU. I am not a CS major myself, but have attended both Berkeley and Columbia and have many friends in CS.</p>

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<p>Forgot to mention that as far as actual computer science classes, they will be exactly the same, with the same fellow students and professors, whether you’re in EECS or College of Letters and Science.</p>

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<p>Also, there are lots of financial engineering firms/international banking firms/stock trading firms in SF also, just not quite as many as NYC. At Berkeley, CS is not really seen as a subfield of Engineering, it’s its own thing, so they have two whole buildings with lounges and study areas and labs and classrooms and club space, etc, not just a part of the Engineering Building. If you are interested in programming for gaming or films, California is a better place to be, though there’s a little bit of TV work in NYC. And if you care about money and fame, none of the programmers I know at Columbia have made it big, but several classmates at UC Berkeley have started companies and are now rich and famous, or famous and doing pro-bono work. Both Berkeley and Columbia have a hippie vibe and have lots of people who care more about good works, or fun, than money. People work hard at both places, but they also have time for fun and seem to be competing with their own personal best more than with other people (though those getting lower grades will still see these people as super-competitive.) There are plenty of nice people at both places but Columbia has a slightly more conventional and preppy feel to it–it IS an east coast Ivy, after all. But it is one of the more liberal bohemian Ivies. Berkeley also feels more exciting and innovative, since it’s right here near Silicon Valley. But both Berkeley and Columbia would be great choices. The OP is international, so this won’t matter, but for others, Berkeley is also going to be significantly cheaper than a private college like Columbia, at least if you’re a California resident. It’s also very slightly cheaper to live in Berkeley than NYC. In Berkeley, I live in a student co-op that is substantially cheaper than the dorms–the only downside is that you have to work 5 hours a week on cleaning or cooking or maintenance etcetera, but that’s like nothing for the price discount you get, plus you make friends working together. But if you like the co-ops, choose your co-op carefully, some are wilder and crazier than others, some are more rundown than others, some have better food than others. If I had all the money in the world, I’d live at International House (it’s about the same as the dorms.) In general, north of campus is quieter which to me is a plus, but some see it as less exciting and vibrant—we have lots of serious students and engineers and families here, while Southside has artists, political activists, fraternities and sororities, and crazy homeless people. While at Columbia, I lived in the Bronx–has a bad reputation but I mostly feel safe there. Wouldn’t be foolhardy there, but that’s true in Berkeley also or any urban campus area. My room mate did have her car windshield smashed outside our apartment in the Bronx. Oh, and another plus in my opinion–you can get along just fine without a car at either Berkeley or Columbia.</p>

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<p>Name recognition of Columbia CS? Don’t worry, Silicon Valley’s stealth power Horowitz of Andreessen & Horowitz got his undergraduate from Columbia. See article below.
<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/27/technology/ben-horowitz.pr.fortune/”>http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/27/technology/ben-horowitz.pr.fortune/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;