Columbia Wannabe

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>Hi--</p>

<p>I'm a current student at UChicago, and after reading this article in the Chicago Maroon, I was absolutely baffled:</p>

<p><a href="http://maroon.uchicago.edu/online_edition/news/2007/04/20/prospective-students-judge-evolving-admissions-process/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://maroon.uchicago.edu/online_edition/news/2007/04/20/prospective-students-judge-evolving-admissions-process/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This year, about twice as many students applied to Columbia as did Chicago. On paper, the schools are nearly identical: both are in major cities, both are known for a rigorous education, both have extensive core curricula based in the Great Books tradition, both have similar sizes grad/undergrad, and as of right now, both have the same rank on USNWR, which is the holy grail of colleges for many students... it seems as though every student who applies to Columbia should also apply to Chicago, and vice versa.</p>

<p>But why do you think that's not the case?</p>

<p>Do you think it's the Uncommon Application that turns kids away?
The antisocial reputation?
The slogan "Where Fun Comes to Die?"
The reputation for an intense workload? (I'm sorry, kids, the Iliad is the Iliad, going to Columbia won't make reading it and writing about it any easier!)
The weather?</p>

<p>Seriously, what is it?</p>

<p>(I'll be honest: I considered Columbia seriously, but I ended up not applying a) because I'm from New York, b) because it's a popular destination for graduates from my high school and I didn't want to see too many familiar faces on campus, and c) I didn't warm to the physical setting. Those considerations were small, but it was enough for me to send in my deposit to Chicago the moment I was accepted EA).</p>

2

<p>"USNWR, which is the holy grail of colleges for many students"</p>

<p>TBH, applicants who base their decisions on rankings are pretty naive and dumb. </p>

<p>"Do you think it's the Uncommon Application that turns kids away?"
I liked it and Columbia doesn't use the CommonApp either, so that probably isn't it. </p>

<p>"The slogan "Where Fun Comes to Die?" "
I think realistic ppl know that none of the top schools are great party schools and that even at UC you'll find something if you search hard enough.</p>

<p>"The weather?"
If you're good enough to get into UC or CU, you should be smart enough not to base your decision on something trivial like the weather. </p>

<p>I think the reason why I never finished my UC app was because I felt as though the hardcore workload wasn't really worth it. I'll have more fun in NYC at Columbia and also it'll probably be easier for me to get a good job. UC just seems to be too academic and not pre-professional enough.</p>

3

<p>i've just heard that chicago requires a lot of science courses, more than most top schools. is that actually true?</p>

4

<p>Columbia is more well-known, and NYC is magical.</p>

5

<p>"UC just seems to be too academic and not pre-professional enough"</p>

<p>It's both academic and pre-professional. A lot of students come in here looking for an academic shakedown, but a lot of those students are also going to go on and be hotshots in business, law, and med school. One might say that the school isn't conducive to grad school admissions due to this "grade deflation," but considering that the average GPA is a 3.26, I can hardly call a B+ average "deflation." If you do enough poking around and find statistics on admissions criteria, you'll see that Chicago performs as well as its peer schools.</p>

<p>Bottom line: if you're career-driven at Chicago, that's great, but you better be academically driven too, otherwise you won't like Core. I would think a Columbian would say that same thing.</p>

<p>Chicago and science courses: Core requirements call for 2 math classes, 2 bio classes, 2 physical science classes. You can use AP credit/ placement test credit to knock some of these requirements out of the way, and you can take a non-calc math, a non-intensive Core Bio, and a "PBS Special" physics (i.e. The Dynamic Environment) to take care of those credits. Completing these requirements is more like satisfying gen ed requirements at any other school. No big deal.</p>

<p>Also a mini-clarification Chicago Core vs. Columbia Core-- at Chicago, imagine you're at a fancy restaurant ordering off a prix fixe menu-- five options for an appetizer, seven for an entree, ten for dessert. Instead of any absolute classes at Chicago, you'll have five or six options for humanities core, five or six for social sciences core, and ten or eleven for civ core. Your humanities (we pronounce it hume) can be anything from a philosophy-based hum to a Media Aesthetics hum. The class that most closely relates to Columbia's Lit Hum is Chicago's Human Being and Citizen humanities core, and the one that most closely relates to the second year core sequence (Columbia's name for it escapes me), is Chicago's Self, Culture, and Society social sciences core.</p>

6

<p>Re: "Columbia is just more well-known, and NYC is magical"</p>

<p>could be. Chicago is plagued with being a "University of" school, whereas Columbia is in the Ivy League, for whatever that's worth (I was looking up words in a Spanish-English dictionary and even there I saw a definition for "Ivy League" and an explanation as to what it is). And I agree that NYC is a great location, even when it's next to Chicago-- NYU is also an extremely popular school, and both schools really tout their location while for Chicagoans, the fact that we're in a city is almost an afterthought.</p>

<p>But I'm almost asking this question to the audience on these message boards-- you bought Fiske, you saw the USNWR lists, you saw the Princeton Review lists, and it's not as if Chicago doesn't make an appearance on these lists. If you care a lot about going to a top college, you've definitely heard the name, and if you're interested in Columbia, you're, for reasons in the first post, should also be interested in Chicago. Yes? No? Where does that logic fall apart?</p>

<p>The only type of student I can think of who might love Columbia and dislike Chicago is one who wants to study engineering, given our nonexistent program. Other than that, I'm still trying to figure it out...</p>

7

<p>No, you're totally right. Students who are interested in Columbia should be interested in Chicago vice versa. I mean that's my dilemma right now -- I'm trying to decide between Chicago and Columbia. Columbia was originially my first choice -- I loved the core and the great books curriculum -- but i was deferred ED. I had planned on applying to Chicago from the very start, but once I was deferred, I started looking into Chicago, and I fell in love. They both are very similar in many respects, but I definitely think the thing that draws so many students to Columbia is its name. While in the world of academia Chicago's name is very well known, not too many students know about it. I live on the east coast and my school is fairly competitive, but we only had 2 applications to Chicago (one of them being mine) while we had about 19 applications to Columbia. Chicago's name just doesn't carry that much weight beyond the midwest. I only discovered Chicago and its wonderful academic environment from my AMAZING english teacher who went there...and he said it was the thing that changed his life (he's like the smartest person I know). Although, many people have heard of Chicago, I just don't think they think it compares in prestiege or academic quality to Columbia.</p>

<p>I think what it comes down to is really the name -- which is really sad. Chicago is a great school and I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two.</p>

8

<p>It wasn't the name for me. I specifically didn't look at Columbia at first because I was worried about a bit of pretentiousness because of the Ivy name. But I was in New York anyway for something else and decided to visit. It completely surprised me. It was a lot more laid back than I was expecting. I actually liked it a lot. I ended up getting waitlisted, so I'm going somewhere else, but it was up there on my list for a while.</p>

<p>And actually, I was looking at Chicago for a while because the school has my type of humor. But when I visited...I don't know, it just didn't click. I think it maybe had something to do with Hyde Park? Which is kind of stupid, but it's important to me that I go somewhere that I feel comfortable. Because once you get into the top tier of schools, the academic level is pretty comparable and it's more about the fit.</p>

9

<p>So a few theories... (yes, I'm a little too curious about this issue)... if any of these resonate with you/ if you have anything you can share to help me out, that would be awesome. Really awesome. Might even help me get some sleep!</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Columbia is in New York City, and New York City is a fantastic place to be.</p></li>
<li><p>Columbia is an Ivy League school. Who doesn't like Ivy League schools?</p></li>
<li><p>Columbia's application is not particularly difficult to fill out.</p></li>
<li><p>Columbia appeals to both arts and sciences and engineering people.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>So there are four pretty major reasons why a student might apply to Columbia. Chicago, on the other hand:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>University of Chicago is in-- guess where-- Chicago. Chicago is only the third-biggest city in the country, and actually, the school is in Hyde Park. It's on the South Side. Boo. (In all honestly, HP is not any worse of a neighborhood than 116th and B'way-- it just has this unshakable reputation of being a bad, bad place).</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago is in the midwest. Its athletic conference is known as the Nerdy Nine (Chicago, Emory, Brandeis, WashU, NYU, CMU, Rochester, Case, and one more I can't think of). Chicago, along with Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, Amherst, Johns Hopkins, and every other amazing school you know of that's not one of the Crazy 8, will always gripe about the fact that they're not in the Ivy League, or that they're just as good, etc. It can be hard to convince people of that.</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago's got an "Uncommon" Application. Even though you CAN use your common app essay if you come up with a prompt for it, a lot of people get turned off by the wacky, student-inspired questions. I wrote my uncommon essay about strings (no joke), a lot of past students have written about Wednesday (as in the day, not the Addams family character), a giant tub of mustard, or a confrontation between Lord Voldemort and Monica Lewinski. If you have fun thinking about these crazy things, you'd be great for Chicago. Unfortunately, I don't think there are so many people who like to think about these crazy things.</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago has a narrow(er) appeal. Check out our boards-- prospies are CONSTANTLY concerned that Chicago will hack apart any chance they have of a future, that it will eat their soul, etc. etc. And no engineering per se, but a fantastic physics department. No business, either, but a top-notch economics program and one of the best graduate b-schools in the nation.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Yes? No?</p>

<p>and thanks luce373-- "fit" and "vibe" are important indeed. At the same time, I imagine that Columbia's uber-urbanness is bound to turn some students away from it too.</p>

10

<p>Let me give it to you straight, and I don't claim that this is right but it's the impression I get from talking to fellow applicants:</p>

<p>If you want to work in academia, go to Chicago. It's intellectual and very mind-stimulating (so are many other places, but this is what ppl have told me). </p>

<p>If you want to work on Wall Street or something like that, go to Columbia. ppl get the impression that Columbia is more highly-regarded by recruiters. Is this true? Heck I don't know. But do most ppl believe this? Yes, I think so. </p>

<p>So it kinda comes down to choosing between a pre-professional and an academic edcuation (this is the impression I get from fellow applicants). And it just seems as though most studens are more into a career in the professional world than in academia.</p>

11

<p>That's interesting.... how, then, do Columbia students/prospectives reconcile their pre-med/pre-law/pre-whatever inclinations with Core, which may seem to go against this idea of practical and career-focused knowledge?</p>

12

<p>I have absolutely no idea, I guess you start worrying about stuff like that when you get your acceptance letters. But everyone knows that Columbia is one of the top feeder schools for IBs and consultancies. I guess this is just in ppl's minds when they make their decisions.
I mean I don't understand why UChicago has a relatively low yield rate compared to its peers. But then if ppl acted and reacted rationally 24/7, life would be more predicdable but utterly dull. Sometimes you just can't change things and stuff which shouldn't happen in theory does in reality.</p>

13

<p>This from the parent perspective---</p>

<p>While there are many students who "do their homework" and carefully evaluate schools and programs, there are many more who apply based on name recognition and other superficial factors. On these boards alone, there are many students who just want to know which schools are the "best" or which are ivies, or which are highly ranked by some publication's standards and apply to those, thinking that admission will be some golden ticket. There is a reason that on-campus sessions with admissions officers at some of the ivies we have visited often start with asking the group if they know what the ivy league is. Many students are under the misimpression that something binds these schools together beyond their athlete league roots and current day admissions and financial aid policies. I think that Columbia gets a bump because of its location and its reputation and its academic programs and because Chicago seems to intentionally (and I think intelligently) discourage applications (by the nature of its application)from those who are not serious --but Columbia gets the biggest bump because it is an ivy.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
1. University of Chicago is in-- guess where-- Chicago. Chicago is only the third-biggest city in the country, and actually, the school is in Hyde Park. It's on the South Side. Boo. (In all honestly, HP is not any worse of a neighborhood than 116th and B'way-- it just has this unshakable reputation of being a bad, bad place).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>HAHAHAHAHA. please. i would MUCH rather travel outside of morningside heights and into harlem or even the bronx/brooklyn/parts of queens than outside of hyde park. the south side has a reputation for a reason. woodlawn is scary at night.</p>

<p>its interesting to note that none of the senior members of this board have chimed in on this topic....</p>

15

<p>When I applied in 2005, Columbia was my first choice and Chicago was my very close second because they are so similar. I think what gave Columbia the boost for me originally was New York; Chicago is very nice, but it just doesn't have the same appeal. I can name maybe two Chicago landmarks (three if you count Oprah), but I can name dozens from New York, not that I came here because I planned to go to the Empire State building every day for four years, but there just seemed to be more going on in New York. I also have to agree with Skraylor about the locations. When I visited Chicago, it definitely was a deterrent, but the area around Columbia seemed much more developed--Chicago had a lot of crumbling buildings, vacant lots, etc. Maybe it was that we drove in from the wrong side, but then again we drove into Columbia through Harlem too which is Columbia's neighbor with a not-so-stellar reputation, and they didn't compare for me. And then, of course, Columbia has this great football program...</p>

16

<p>It does? I thought we suck at all the sports?</p>

17

<p>Pretty much--although I think our fencing team is pretty good, and the women's soccer team won the Ivy League title for 2006.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for the input--</p>

<p>In terms of Hyde Park and safety, it's the kind of place where you don't go walking around by yourself at night. You don't walk around by yourself at night at Columbia, either.</p>

<p>The locality of Hyde Park is actually very, very, very nice. Think tree-lined streets and homes that go for 1 million +. Barack Obama lives about 10 blocks north of campus, and a lot of students, grad students, and professors litter the area.</p>

<p>The other reasons people have given for "Why Columbia-- Why not Chicago" have been pretty helpful in reminding me that students are not linear with their college decisions. College selection, for better or for worse, rides on a sort of gut feeling "I like this-- I don't like this" rather than "Oh, these schools have a lot in common, if I like one I should definitely like the other."</p>

19

<p>Columbia's neighborhood is actually one of the safest in the city. I wouldn't be scared to walk by myself at night for a second (given that I work at the newspaper and that we finish very late each night, I often do). Just wanted to clear up that misconception; Morningside is very safe (some people actually complain about its being too sanitized), and I don't know anyone at Columbia who would say differently.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
In terms of Hyde Park and safety, it's the kind of place where you don't go walking around by yourself at night. You don't walk around by yourself at night at Columbia, either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>c2009 already said it. but to reiterate, morningside heights is incredibly safe and i have no problem going anywhere at night (with the possible exception of morningside park, but its stupid to be in any park at night anyways)</p>

<p>and im not saying hyde park is that bad, cuz its not. but the surrounding areas ARE that bad</p>