<p>Hello. I need a little feedback/guidance on choosing the right path for what i want to pursue. I want to be a surgeon (possibly general or i might decide to specialize later on) and be an actuarial analyst. From researching, i've found out that actuarial employers prefer for employees to have a degree in actuary but medical school mainly look for pre req classes and GPA. So i need to decide on my major and minor.. because the school i'm looking at has great departments for medicine and actuary. Either way i'm going to have all classes covered before i take first actuary exam or mcats. So should i major in like finance or economics? I need help in balancing it out logically and something that sounds impressive enough for both fields and something that'll cover all the required classes i need.
I know it'll be a heavy load of classes but i'm interested in both so i want to go further with this and see how it goes.
So by the time i finish undergrad, i'll have a BS degree in some sort of actuarial major(which i need to decide), and all of my actuary -related and premed classes finished, first 2 actuary exams taken and mcats taken.. how does it sound? Am i going in for nothing? I mean i am willing to work very hard but i just hope i don't have to switch out. </p>
<p>Also, if we talk just about premed first, 4 years undergrad 4 years medical school then i want to go straight into surgery which is about 5 years of residency .. what are all the exams that are included in those years? And how would this process exactly be?</p>
<p>Also, what are the most demanding surgeons as of today? and do all surgeons require USMLE 1 AND 2??</p>
<p>But then wouldn’t the med school ask me why i majored in eco or math and came to be a doc? And since it’s VERY competitive … i should have a science major right? What if i just double major in say biochem and economics? or any other suggestions for majors?</p>
<p>No, because as long as you don’t have a vocational major, professional schools really don’t care what you major in. Russian Lit is just as good as math which is just as good as bio, as long as one has a high gpa + mcat score.</p>
<p>If you are a actuarial major, which leads to a vocation after college thus it is a vocation major, med school may wonder why you want to be a doctor in the first place. You may have some explanation to do to convince adcoms that you are not going into the actuary field.</p>
<p>If you indeed want to be a surgeon, I think it may be more beneficial for you to build the physical strength (being an athlete or more active in competitive sport) rather than being so concerned about how hard your major should be (this is what those on the PhD track should be more concerned about.) This is because becoming a surgeon is one of the most physically demanding and grueling task.</p>
<p>^ Although it may not be a fair comparison, let’s say there are two applicants: the first one is an economic or sociology major but has the physical strength and personal charisma like Jeremy Lin (who happens to have these two majors), and the other is a biochemistry and BME double major but looks like he curls up in the library most time every week and looks pale. Even if the former has 0.15 lower GPA and 2 points lower MCAT, many non-research-oriented medical school will likely take the former one any day.</p>
<p>I agree this example is too extreme because it is said Jeremy Lin started to receive his training from many best coaches since his early years. To get good enough grades in science/engineering majors, you really do not need such a huge commitment (and such a great talent) for so many years.</p>
<p>I’m having trouble imaging how the course scheduling works unless you major in either Bio or Chem. My daughter is keeping Med school open as an option while majoring in something other than Bio or Chem and the pre-med requirements are chewing up her electives. While we have far from complete info here (how many APs? how many actuary courses verses self-study? etc) it seems to me fitting both pre-med and actuary courses into elective slots is somewhere on the impossible-masochistic-life_sucking scale.</p>
<p>Not sure why it would be a big deal, 3togo. To become an actuary, one only has to pass the tests. No ‘courses’ needed per se. My son’s GF, a math-film double major, easily passed her actuarial exams. And she attended a small College which offered nothing even close to an ‘actuarial’ course; also no AP credits.</p>
<p>Thus I guess it’s easy enough to self-study for the exams. Of course, that means not taking the time to be involved in med-related ECs (which will hinder a med school app).</p>
<p>“Not sure why it would be a big deal, 3togo. To become an actuary, one only has to pass the tests. No ‘courses’ needed per se.”</p>
<p>This is not correct. There are three courses which must be taken: economics, corporate finance, and applied statistics. The easier way is to take the courses during college. A list of accepted courses is available. I have worked for an actuarial group and have first hand knowledge of the requirements and process.</p>
<p>Most beginning actuaries have completed these courses and passed the first two exams during college as they begin to earn their first designation. Many college students will study for these exams during the summer. Employers will expect one to work towards the two designations and/or the certification.</p>
<p>One could certainly major in math or econ with a science (chemistry probably) minor or even the reverse as many science courses require math courses. It won’t be easy, but it could be done with great planning.</p>
<p>Med schools won’t ask why you didn’t have a science major as long as you have met the pre-med requirements. DD’s doctor tried to convince her (an English major at that time) to take also take pre-med courses. The key is the having the courses and the test scores.</p>
<p>I agree on being physically fit. I do play field hockey and i also run long distance so i got that covered!
And the former as in the person with double major? And i dont exactly get what youre saying in the last paragraph… could you please elaborate? </p>
<p>@bluebayou</p>
<p>I understand what youre saying. Double major can be tough due to the heavy load of classes but if the person is smart enough to manage everything in a timely manner… it is definitely possible.</p>
<p>@rrah</p>
<p>What youre saying is true. But i recently spoke with a couple of my uncles who are doctors and surgeons for quite a long time and what they said was double majoring in both directions would be easier so in future there wont be any ups and downs when getting a job. And since youre experienced with actuarial studies… when exactly do students take the first two tests during undergrad year? …usually.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point in this path at all. Why would one want/need to be BOTH a surgeon AND an actuary?</p>
<p>And to answer some questions about surgeons from the OP</p>
<p>Yes, all surgeons must take USMLE 1, 2CS, 2CK, 3, as well as of course your exams during the 4 years of school. What do you mean by demanding? The longest? I think that’s neurosurgery which has a 7 years residency. The most competitive? That would be plastic surgery which has the highest average Step 1 scores (1.5 SDs above national step 1 average) of any specialty. I would check out the AAMCs website for for info on the path to surgery.</p>
<p>I had interest in both fields so i just went with it and wanted to see how i can combine things. One thing i know for sure is that i want to do more thn one thing as a profession. So i went about asking other people what they majored/double majored in i was looking though the different combinations people can make. And i’ve always wanted to be a surgeon and actuary… well i found that about through research… i haven’t showered or looking into it deeply like i have for medicine but i like math a lot and economics looks fun. I mean of course i dont have the college level experience and thats why i wanna take a chance with it and pray that it’ll only do me good. Another logic i saw in this was, if i can take the first two exams before going into medical school… i can get a job and start paying my loans off… and that IF i’m smart enough to get through it all. </p>
<p>And yes i was asking about most competitive. So after 2 yrs of med school you take USMLE 1, then after the clinical 2 years you take USMLE 2 and then apply for residency… which would be 5 years if i go into surgery …in which i’ll have to take a boards exam to be licensed in that department then fellowship …but general surgery doesnt require fellowship. I don’t know what i want to specialize in so that is why i was asking what is good, what will be most useful in future, and the time/extra exams i’d have to take.</p>
<p>"And since you’re experienced with actuarial studies… when exactly do students take the first two tests during undergrad year? …usually. "</p>
<p>It varies depending upon a student class schedule. They don’t have to have taken particular classes to take the exam, but it might be useful in learning the material: eg–a probablity and stats class prior to taking the Probability exam wouldn’t hurt. There are suggested readings for all exams. Many students will study for the exams over summer breaks. Most will have taken two exams prior to graduation. No particular order is required for the exams, but there is a suggestion as to which exams to take first.</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant to write that there are no “actuarial” courses that are required.</p>
<p>Econ, stats and finance can easily be added to any major as electives. But note, they are NOT required to sit for the exam (the lady I referred to above, only took Stats and Econ, not finance)…</p>
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<p>…although undoubtedly they would easier to take in college and would better prepare one for the exams.</p>
<p>Personally, I would guess that a major in actuarial studies would be frowned upon by med schools (since they tend to discount “vocational” majors). IMO, it is far better to major in a traditional liberal arts field, and take Econ, Stats and Finance as electives. (And Stats counts for bcpm.) Ask your college premed advisors.</p>
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<p>That maybe 100% accurate, but remember, one is applying to academe. And academe prefers those that are all-in, not those trying to hedge their bets. Is it elitism? Sure. (But they make the rules.)</p>
<p>Med school is 1 year of:
General biology
Physics with lab
General chemistry (inorganic chemistry) with lab
Organic chemistry with lab
Calculus
English</p>
<p>For actuarial career you need:
finance
microeconomics
macroeconomics
three semesters of calculus
one semester of linear algebra
two semesters of calculus-based probability and statistics
actuarial science courses, as available
computer science courses
business courses, such as marketing
communication courses, such as speech, business writing and technical writing
literature, history, art, political science, the humanities, and other liberal arts classes</p>
<p>Math classes are the only ones that overlap. With high gpa, and great exam scores, i’ll get a job as an actuary (after passing 2 exams) …which is before i get into med school. And of course the college i attend will guide me in when to take all these classes and stuff like that. I want to go into surgery and by that time i’ll be done with actuarial studies since i don’t HAVE to take all five exams to get a job. I also have to take into consideration, i need time for research, volunteering and working hours. Only time that will be very hard if i double major with this is around the time when i’ll be studying for MCATS and the first 2 tests for actuary. But considering everyone’s suggestions and comments, i’m still confused on what to make my major?! I keep asking this question because i dont want to make a mistake in choosing something that’ll make the employers or med schools question me …i want to have it all balanced out.</p>
<p>No, you do not “need”; note the site says “should include” not “must” include.</p>
<p>Many of those courses are nice-to-haves, particularly for the business world. Marketing, for example, will provide you with absolutely zero value for the actuary exam. Business Communications is also a nice-to-have, and will have absolutely nothing to do with the exams. Heck, many highly selective schools don’t even offer marketing and comm classes to undergrads, nor do they offer actuarial science majors. But yet they still have students that become actuaries.</p>
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<p>But, become an actuary. It’s a great living and quality of life.</p>
<p>Well if you talk about quality of life then obviously being a surgeon for a women is a HUGE step and actuary is same amount of work but shorter time …i mean it’s all about strength, ability, and commitment. It is a great living… that is definitely right. But if everyone keeps up with that mentality thn there will be no female surgeons left.</p>
<p>Pre-med courses ~= 10 semester courses of science and math, plus 2 semester courses of English that are probably required by most colleges anyway.</p>
<p>Typical liberal arts major ~= 12 to 15 semester courses.</p>
<p>Even if nothing overlaps, the combination would take up 24 to 27 out of a typical 32 semester courses that one would take over four years. That leaves 5 to 8 semester courses of electives or breadth requirements (though if nothing overlaps, then it is likely that at least some breadth requirements are satisfied by the combination).</p>