Comfortable for pro-Israel Jews?

Oberlin College is on this eye-opening list: http://www.amchainitiative.org/antisemitic-activity-schools-large-Jewish-report-2015

@1518mom The table here is ridiculous and doesn’t really measure the level of antisemetism at all. Almost all of these incidences are the results of criticism of Israel that is interpreted as antisemitism by Jewish students especially harsh criticism. Also, notice how UC schools are ranked particularly high, I suspect this is a result of their Palestinian activists and BDS which are labelled automatically as antisemitic. In terms of any real incidences of antisemetism unrelated to critique of Israel there is virtually no incidences of violence or pure bigotry.

It is absurd to measure antisemitism by BDS activity or Palestinian organizations activities. Not that I support both groups but they are not listed as hate groups and consider themselves rights activists. BDS may be suspicious but may not necessarily be out to get rid of Israel. I’m not sure what the goal of the organization is? a one state solution, a two state solution or as Jewish students speculate to get rid of Israel? At the end of the day no one can claim to know this unless they are a mind reader. That is why the table here is deeply flawed and only serves to increase Jewish students anxiety and make their experience at college worse. Let’s not create hysteria, there is nothing that Jewish students should be worried about. Stop making others paranoid!! Both you and @gratefulalum are part of the problem, no wonder so many Jewish students feel isolated.

@ali1320- You’re what, 20 years old max, and an expert on anti semitism? It’s a complicated and sometimes nuanced issue that you have zero experience with. How can you tell people they are part of a problem if you don’t even understand the problem?

I chose to share the link to the Amcha Initiative to provide information from the Jewish perspective on this board. @Ali1302 Your vitriol is offensive and I will not comment further.

@Ali1302 – Simply put, given that you’re either poorly-informed or have a stick up your rectum about Jews (or both), you’ll fit in just fine at Oberlin.

According to the FBI’s latest statistics 60% of anti-religion hate crimes in the U.S. were committed against Jews, as opposed to 13% against Muslims.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/victims/victims_final
It’s of course much worse in Europe.
It’s not paranoia or a need to feel persecuted. Those who seek a ‘safe space’ for every conceivable aggrieved racial, ethnic, gender, etc. group have no second thoughts about attacking Jews. Jews have simply been too successful either here or in Israel to qualify as a ‘victim’. So be it.

@AsleepAtTheWheel I’ve actually gone to a Jewish majority day school and a sixth form with a lot of Jewish students so my comments don’t come from a place of inexperience. While at school I just didn’t notice any real form of discrimination or bigotry towards other Jewish students. Even though the UK doesn’t have the most favorable view of Israel it still is amongst the most tolerant countries in the world.

I just find it hard to believe that in the United States of all places there would be any form of irrational hatred towards anyone based on race or religion. In addition to this, the U.S. is very pro-Israel and even has a more favorable view of Jews than Catholics. That is why I find it very frustrating when accusations of anti-Semitism are made and in this case I feel it isn’t a valid accusation. What the professor said was wrong but in her statements she was referring both to the United States and Israel as countries and not Jews as individuals. Her statements were false and inaccurate but are from paranoia and conspiracy theories than any real form of hatred. She simply stated a conspiracy theory which Israel seemed to fit into. She belongs in the same category of people who believe shape shifting lizards that live underground in California control the world.

I don’t understand why anti-Semitism has to turn into a complex issue when it really should be defined simply as a form of irrational hatred towards Jews fullstop. People who try to spread fear and anxiety in the Jewish community are the ones that are doing the most harm and resulting in these hate crime accusations either from paranoia about non-Jews or delusional beliefs not to say there aren’t genuine cases but they are very rare. What we need now is more peace and understanding among people of different racial, religious and cultural backgrounds NOT hate, fear and anxiety.

The truth is the vast majority is safe in the United States and that those who are spreading fear are just looking for something to worry about and trying to create hysteria. Who wants to live like this? In constant fear of being a victim? Viewing people as potential monsters that could strike at any moment? How does this help Jewish students or help improve their college experience at all? That is why you are part of the problem and preventing Jewish students from having peace of mind while in college.

Oh I see. You went to school with Jews, therefore you know what it is like to be a Jew AND are an expert on anti-semitism in the US. And as a 19 (?) year old former resident of the U.K., you most certainly are well equipped to tell American Jews that THEY are the real problem (which sounds familiar actually…)

@myjanda I said people that try to spread fear and create hysteria among the Jewish community are part of the problem not Jews. Even here in this case when I’m clearly trying to spread a positive message you try to always look for a negative. Does it make a difference if I’m 19 or 20 when it comes to this topic? This is something everyone can understand and relate to yet you try to make discrimination something that is unique to Jewish Americans?

@Ali1302 You are greatly misinformed. Jews have been the target of discrimination, bigotry, and genocide since the beginning of time. And any Jew would be foolish to think that it’s completely in the past and it’s all good now and going forward. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Going to high school with Jewish people does not make you an expert. Please stop. Just stop.

@brantly I can’t help you or most individuals who share your views. I’ll just say that it is much better to look at the positives in life than focus on negatives and the past. There will come a time in your life when you have to learn to forgive others and move on. No one can live their entire lives with constant fear and anxiety. I hope most Jewish students at Oberlin choose to think positively and have peace of mind. It will benefit them and make their college experience a lot better.

@Ali1302 Nobody here is asking for “help” from you, and nobody needs help. You have NO idea what you are talking about. It’s best that you stop now because you are way, way out of line.

No one is arguing with you that the world wouldn’t be a much better place “if we could all just get along” as the old cliche goes. But statements like yours show such a complete ignorance of history and come across as so hopelessly naive that everything you are saying is useless, on any practical level. What do you hope to accomplish with it? You might as well add in that if we could just stop committing crimes, end world hunger (there really is plenty of food after all), and share everything the world would just be paradise again. All true, but how does that help move anything forward in the real world? Have you ever seen the movie Miss Congeniality? You sound like all the contestants that answer every question with “world peace”.

You also seem to struggle with the definition of anti-Semitic.

That would mean you want to change the definition of who is a Semite, a word that has been fully defined for thousands of years.

Clearly, at least to me, you are trying to desperately justify your choice to attend Oberlin in light of these disturbing facts. I wouldn’t worry. First, I do indeed imagine on a day-to-day basis one can, should they so choose, have a very excellent 4 years there, get a great education and be nearly unaware and unconcerned about these issues should they so choose. Second, and on the opposite end if one wanted, one could look on it as an opportunity to set the record straight, whatever that might mean to you. But to be in willful denial that Prof. Karega is a hater of Jews and Israel (see, I won’t use the term anti-Semitic because it is so misused in these arguments) is to just be childishly ignorant of the reality that could not be laid before you any more plainly. One doesn’t have to be a mind reader in her case, it is out there for all to see. There are no other motivations that explain her very plain statements.

You can continue to argue that you are right and everyone else is wrong, of course. But the “everyone else” in this case has quite a few highly educated, far older and more experienced people in it. Is your ego so large that you cannot concede that you might have taken a wrong turn on this? Again, I don’t mean choosing Oberlin. Forget about that, it is most likely a very fine choice for you. I mean to want to win this point so badly that you are using lines of arguments that most people abandon by fourth grade. If you cannot see that, well so be it. It then really is like arguing with a stubborn eight year old, with all the adults standing there chuckling at the amusingly naive arguments.

OP - Your thesis seems to be something along the lines of, “Don’t worry, be happy”. Against this, Jewish people have the weight of a long history of repression and even attempted genocide and Santayana’s admonition that, “Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.”
I think I’ll go with Santayana.

This video is chilling. It should be required viewing for anyone who doubts there is significant antisemitism on campus. Remember: These are our the future leaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAyFlByb64M

@brantly, thank you for sharing this. It is truly horrifying. Makes me concerned for both my kids in and about to go to college…

Ok, I changed my mind. I just needed a few days to compose my thoughts on what to say to an ignorant kid with whom there would be no point in trying to have a rational discussion. @brantly Thank you for sharing the youtube video. Turns out, one of the speakers is an acquaintance. I believe what he says about his experiences on campus. Regarding the Amcha Initiative link above and comments that those incidents aren’t real or only related to BDS, how in the world could ali1302 know? Did s/he participate in the study? Besides, how does a kid who’s grown up outside the US become such an expert on anti-semitism on US college campuses? Boggles my mind!

@brantly I’m aware of this video there is even another controversial video of Ami Horrowitz waving an ISIL flag and getting no criticism than waving an Israeli flag to get criticized by students at UC Berkeley:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOHJ06bsSow

The issue here is the video posted by @brantly was labelling Palestinian rights groups as Anti-Semitic and anyone who supports the Palestinians or even sympathises with there cause is labelled this way. It seems to be more of a political video aimed at Palestinian groups and BDS on campus than anything actually having to do with any hatred of Jews. The video just proves my point on paranoia and anxiety among Jewish students. The parts of the video showing Palestinian rights groups seems to be edited out(although they are shown to be very hostile), The pro-Israeli Jewish students in this case could have provoked a response. For instance at one part of the video we see an angry response from a female Palestinian student to a Jewish professor but I know for a fact after watching the full video of this that the professor called her a terrorist for waving the Palestinian flag which provoked a response from her. The video’s purpose is more to fight not only BDS but any form of Palestinian support on college campuses, this may have been strategized by Netanyahu or Israeli organizations themselves in an effort to expose palestinian groups. The issue here is that support of Palestine or recognition of it isn’t necessarily anti-Israel. Every single country around the world supports a two state solution under international law and there have even been some countries in the western world that recognize Palestine most notably Sweden and potentially France aswell as the United Kingdom. I wish that Palestinian groups and Jewish groups could just get along on campus and have more peaceful debates than all this protesting and hostility.

There is another interesting video showing a Jewish professor who is confronted by a pro-Hezbollah student:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGN8SlIEZ8

The conversation seems to start out normally then ends with the Professor questioning whether the student supported Hezbollah that is recognized as a terrorist group by Israel and the United States. Once she said she was for Hezbollah she was dismissed as a terrorist, he even calls her scarf a terrorist scarf which I found a bit offensive. I don’t understand why the student would support Hezbollah but this seems more of a political thing and has to do with radical Islamic terrorism.

The purpose of these videos is to cause Hysteria, anxiety and paranoia among Jewish students on college campuses. The video seems disturbing to the average viewer(including myself) and probably I can imagine terrifying for Jewish Americans to watch. I’ve seen other Palestinian groups on campuses and have rarely seen any hostility as shown in the video, I don’t believe it is fair to label all Palestinian groups this way especially from a well edited, politically biased video. I personally do support Israel as a sovereign state and U.S. ally and believe that the vast majority of Americans do, so I’ll advise most people that are watching this thread not to feel paranoid, worried or overreact.

Finally, I feel like my message of thinking positively and having peace of mind is being met for some reason with hostility. I ask would you rather have Jewish students feel paranoid and isolated?? Do you think this helps their college experience at all? and to add to that why should the definition of anti-Semitism be complicated? It is simple, any irrational hatred against Jews is anti-Semitic. Discrimination isn’t unique to Jewish Americans and I can argue that other groups even Catholics face more discrimination than Jews in America. The Professor in this case was more a conspiracy theorist than anything else, she mentions the CIA and Mossad not Jews in particular. She fits into the category of paranoid conspiracy theorists that believe Lizard people that live underground in California rule the world. Stop creating hysteria and being paranoid over trivial comments!!

Ali1302 is very talkative, and is interested in the subject, but is not well informed. Her college curriculum should include courses covering history of the Jews, the Holocaust, American history with an emphasis on slavery and the treatment of minorities, and the Middle East conflict from 1900 to the present. She should also listen to speakers who are both pro- and anti-Zionist.

The OP appears to have disappeared and this discussion is not productive. Closing thread.