Agreed. Washington and Illinois are great schools, but not worth twice as much as Wooster or K’zoo.
6 Likes
This is in no way meant to disparage Wooster, but since so many have talked about the academic strength of its student body over Kalamazoo, I just wanted to point out that the top producing schools in the U.S. for Fulbright scholarships was recently shared here on CC.
Kalamazoo had 4 students receive a Fulbright (out of 19 applied)
College of Wooster had 1 student receive a Fulbright (out of 4 applied)
The above is for SY22-23, but you can also see more than 10 years of history to see if you notice any other trends.
Some schools push applying for post-grad fellowships more heavily than others, and there are all sorts of other factors that come into play. (Both schools’ awarded rate of 20-25% is pretty in-line with a lot of the Top X schools.) But I just thought that it might assuage any potential concerns that Kalamazoo wouldn’t be producing a high-quality graduate.
Frankly, it sounds to me as though your son might be leaning in a direction, seeing as one school seems more fun, has a more appealing curriculum (to him), and has been more engaging and accessible for your family.
As others have said, both schools are excellent options. Congrats to your son!
5 Likes
Yes. I did see the article and was pleasantly surprised. Also Kalamazoo is higher PhD feeder in life sciences than Wooster. Not by too much but anyway we are trying to split hairs here anyways :-).
K food people had some complaints about. My son talked to the senior there. She said they have changed the catering and now food has improved a lot.
In terms of city activities K is certainly better than Wooster with Chicago relatively close by that is an option as well.
I do feel that Capstone/thesis is really highly regarded from W. In fact they are ranked 2nd in that in USN after Princeton. Not sure how much credence to give to the rankings.
2 Likes
I think you have two great choices. @Andygp If you get a better vibe with K’zoo and the curriculum is a better fit then by all means go for it.
We are kind of struggling with the same decision in our household. One school is rolling out the crimson carpet for him and the other higher ranked university is not very responsive and can’t seem to get its act together. My son has soured on the second school. Another huge draw for him is that the first school only has about 24 hr of gen ed credit requirement, freeing him up to take more classes that he really wants.
Another thing to consider is that Chicago has some excellent universities that might be good fit for your son to do research in the summers.
Both schools are pretty solid. Pick the one that makes your son feel special.
3 Likes
My D21 goes to Wooster and loves it there academically and socially, so I can give you lots of info about it. I will say that I have heard nothing but good things about Kzoo, and any positives I highlight about Wooster, I’m sure Kzoo has a lot of similar things going on. I actually think you can’t go wrong with either choice.
We walked around Kzoo in fall '20 but ofc, it was completely remote and no one was on campus. As I recall, Wooster’s campus is considerably bigger than Kzoo (about 4x) and imo prettier (very subjective). My D21 would not apply to Kzoo bc it was too small for her, so we didn’t really evaluate it and I can’t fairly compare them. I also don’t personally know anyone who has attended, although I do know someone who was deciding between it and Knox (she chose Knox instead).
One of the biggest reasons my D21 chose Wooster was the independent study (senior thesis) project, because she has always planned on grad school. I know most schools have the option for a senior thesis project, but it is ingrained in the culture of Wooster in a different way, it is a thing every single student must do to graduate, and they think about and plan for it from their first year. I.S. Monday, (the day in March when all independent study projects need to be turned in) is a huge celebration day on the campus, and actually, nationwide, as alumni have IS Monday Happy Hours in different cities. There is then a big showcase of all the IS projects on the campus in April. It’s a big, big deal there.
Regarding gen eds, she has been required to complete 2 credits in each of 3 broad areas, but they aren’t restrictive in any way, and are a way to broaden the educational experience. They aren’t cumbersome to complete and she has found her classes outside her core major/minor/pathway classes quite interesting.
I can’t speak to how much more fun K’zoo is over Wooster, but my daughter has a lot of fun. 
She is involved in Greek life, which is quite low key and not similar to greek life at big schools. It’s more just social clubs and they have a lot of themed parties with other groups. One fraternity in particular that she socializes with seems to have a lot of international students in it. She has a lot of friends from different backgrounds. There is a student activities group that plans tons of stuff for students (find WACWooster on instagram for examples), both on campus and off. My daughter also goes to sporting events with her friends, lots of basketball and hockey games this year. There are lots of student groups to be involved in at Wooster and it seems like most kids do a lot of different things, from dance to volunteering to Model UN.
Wooster opened a new student center this year, and it’s beautiful. The science building at Wooster, if you haven’t seen it yet, is absolutely gorgeous. The academic buildings overall are just quite impressive. The libraries are beautiful, one in particular, my daughter said if she had seen it on the tour she would have committed then and there.
However, there are at least a couple dorms at Wooster that need considerable renovations, and the rest I would describe as “fine.” Every single year in the fall there are issues with bats in two of them (not ones my daughter has lived in, though). The parents freak out about the bats far, far more than the students do, however. The food is fine, much better than last year when the student center was under construction, but Idk if the students would describe it as great. Again, the parents seem to complain more about it than the students.
The professors are amazing, they have offered guidance, opportunities, and connections and it’s been exactly the reason she chose a small LAC over a big school. I am certain Kzoo would offer similar experiences, as would virtually any LAC. (Ironically, my D23 is likely going to UIUC and it makes me a bit sad that she won’t have these types of experience, bc she absolutely won’t. But for her intended career, it matters less).
Lots of research, funded internship, and study abroad opportunities, ofc. My daughter just applied for a funded Social Justice Internship for this coming summer to work with different local organizations around Wooster. The Sophomore Research program has lots of opportunities to work with professors, particularly in the sciences.
Regarding transportation, there are two airports equally close to Wooster, Cleveland and Akron. My daughter has taken flights out of Akron more often than Cleveland. Wooster runs shuttles to and from both of them for breaks, although how convenient that is just depends. For her, she usually gets rides from friends to the airports.
Anything else you want to know, just ask! I hope someone who has a lot of knowledge about Kzoo chimes in too!
10 Likes
You have gotten great advice so far. I’m an Ohio native so Wooster is more familiar to me…and well regarded. But Kalamazoo is also a fine school. As pointed out, K is in a larger small city which might be preferable or not!
I would check airline flights to Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland for ease of transportation to and from India. Akron is a much smaller airport.
3 Likes
We got a welcoming vibe from both schools two years ago. I do think a big part of it with Wooster came from our visit to campus for an Open House when we were able to hear directly from multiple professors, the head of career services, the president of the college, admission staff, community members, students, etc. Both schools, I think, have a warm supportive vibe and good mentorship, though I understand that may be coming across more strongly in some marketing material than the other.
I agree with other posters that the new science building at Wooster is very nice (including a cafe). We didn’t get to see the new student union as it hadn’t been built yet when we were there but overall I was impressed with Wooster’s campus and felt like it was one of the nicer ones I saw for a school that size.
4 Likes
The different academic calendars have been mentioned in terms of the academic experience, but if your son plans to travel internationally on breaks, it could also be a factor to consider in terms of the time windows between terms.
For the coming year, Kalamazoo’s three terms are:
Fall: Sep 3 to Nov 22
Winter: Jan 4 to Mar 14
Spring: Mar 27 to Jun 6
Wooster’s two terms are:
Fall: Aug 24 to Dec 15, with a break from Oct 8-16
Spring: Jan 11 to May 9, with a break from Mar 11-26
So, K-College has a longer/earlier winter break but a shorter/later summer. Could be something to consider along with the other aspects of travel logistics. Also, there’s a difference between a break during a semester, with courses in progress and deadlines looming after the break, vs. a break between terms - some may prefer the option of using break time to catch up or get ahead, while others may prefer having no academic obligations that span their breaks.
3 Likes
Even though UIUC is top notch for research in those fields, most research opportunities go to the grad students. My brother has a BS biochemistry degree from UIUC and he never even talked to a professor in person, although that’s anecdotal. LACs in general seem to offer more research opportunities for undergrads but obvs you want the big research universities for grad school.
3 Likes
One last suggestion I have, for any LAC you might look at, is find the actual course schedules, not just the course catalogues. I found it very useful to see what courses are actually offered as opposed to just listed as a potential course in the course catalogue. At LACs, it’s often the case for courses to also be offered every year in the spring or fall, or every other year, etc.
Here are links for Kzoo and Wooster:
3 Likes
Yes. Once you consider the price point, I am sure they are not worth it. However, for the sake of argument if you remove that factor from consideration still I am not sure anymore.
-
Our experience with large public schools regarding applications has been really suboptimal. They make a lot of mistakes and don’t even communicate with students. May be admissions department should not be used to make a judgment about the operations overall but still it is concerning.
-
I hear many large classes students are doing online these days. This completely defeats the purpose of going to USA and doing education. Coursera and EdX are available remotely also.
-
Plus potential difficulties in getting research positions as undergrads due to competition with graduate students etc.
May be this is a separate thread but I am not convinced anymore that public research schools are worth it for an international undergraduate student who wants to go into graduate studies.
6 Likes
Thanks. All the best for your decision as well.
One selfish motive regarding K for me is I can come and stay in Chicago for business and travel to New York easily
2 Likes
Wow! This is amazing and really helpful. My son’s final exams are going on. I am going to recommend him to open an account and CC and interact with you all directly. It will benefit him a lot I am sure.
What major is your daughter if I may ask?
Wooster seems truly fascinating! About dorms and food it is always hard to make people happy.
One counter (may be bit defensive) thinking I have is, if everyone is doing final year thesis then it might be difficult to stand out?
1 Like
Any downsides of being in a small city? I understand crime may be bit higher but other than that I felt it is all plusses?
Looks beautiful.
Good point. I think India trips will mostly happen in summer break and June to September period is much better weather wise in India. Also since fewer schools are on quarter calendar tickets might be cheaper as well.
In other breaks I think he probably wi visit family and friends within USA.
3 Likes
Yes. I am not surprised. Even in Berkeley graduate students got hardly any face time with professors. For undergraduates it would be even more rare. You have to truly stand out and try hard.
This is an excellent suggestion. We will try to map out the four year journey in both schools and see how we fare.
Would you know possibility of doing summer classes? Do any of the small schools have summer class possibility with an accelerated program. Also any idea on how easy it is to transfer credits? Since he is doing 4 A level classes, I hear many Universities give credit at least equivalent to one semester worth of course work.
I am not sure whether trying finish degree earlier is worth it but transfer may allow you to do other more advanced courses rather than repeating same material.
I think there might be more to do…plus you have Western Michigan nearby…where there have to be things going on too!
But I do love the small town Wooster!
3 Likes