<p>Any comment on advantages, worthwhileness of IB Program and in comparison to AP.</p>
<p>As a condescending foreigner, I say the IB is much much better than the AP. I had this opinion initially, and after hanging out on CC for a while, it's just been strengthened. The AP seems to me to be a lot of grade-grubbing, a lot of memorizing, a lot of cliffnotes and prep books and very little actual learning. It absolutely kills humanities by teaching to a test. Its maths and sciences may be worthwhile, but it depends what you're looking for.</p>
<p>The IB generally stresses method over content. It doesn't matter what the topic is, you will be able to carry out any procedure, write any paper, evaluate any source, and so on by the end of it. While AP courses involve some critical thinking, it's absolutely essential to the IB. It teaches expression - writing and oral responses - over formula and multiple choice formats, especially in its exams. Basically, the AP is a lot of information that you have to assimilate and then regurgitate for the exams. The IB (unless you have particularly horrible teachers) is more more method driven and more analytical, and instead of teaching to an exam, teaches how to learn. If you're talking about the diploma, you have six courses (and theory of knowledge), which might be your strengths or your weaknesses, that you will cover in-depth over two years. </p>
<p>I've officially been in the IB program for two months and so far, I've loved it. I have two complaints, neither of them particularly relevant to what the IB is as a whole. First, that there is very little occasion to talk about theme (when not attached to literary devices) in IB English. Second, the Theory of Knowledge questions and examiners seem to be looking for nihilistic, existentialist, "We can't be sure of anything" answers. Our teacher was also advised to lay off the "difficult reading" during a TOK seminar, the Descartes and Aristotle and Plato, but because he didn't listen, it doesn't really matter. IB History is amazing - so much fun. IB Math HL is definitely the most out-there class I've ever taken (we all failed our test Wed).</p>
<p>I'm in IB. Totally worth it. . .the knowledge I've gained has been invaluable. For AP it seems to be more getting the info: it doesn't really seem to teach method as Limon said. Multiple choice is all good and fine in teaching you some material, but how valuable can it really be? IB teaches you to express your thoughts in words, in essay format, in analysis, in anything. And it really tests for your understanding of the material, not just cookie-cutter facts. For Math HL, I've gotta say, remembering a formula won't do you any good. In fact, IB gives you many formulas for the test. Your job is to apply them, and understand them completely. That's why I love IB. You really learn.
IB Math HL is tough though, I agree with Limon. I think I bombed the matrices test on thursday.</p>
<p>I'm totally for the IB... I'm a senior in UWCSEA (biggest IB school in the world) doing the IB.. and I must say without a doubt IB is a right BITCH (parents, excuse my french)
But that's what it is.</p>
<p>It's incredibly demanding. But this rigorous diploma program, I feel, is going to prepare me very well for college... As much as I'm feeling the pressures of IB right now, I must say that I do love the challenge.. It's very stimulating.. And it's really just soooooooooo much better than APs or whatever.
IB is world-acclaimed.. and schools in the US think very highly of the IB.
My school always says how IB is the hardest high school diploma and what not.. I'm sure we're biased and all, but I can understand where that's coming from.</p>
<p>Try doing all the courseworks, normal homeworks, EE, TOK, CAS, and college stuff...... I'm definitely PRO-IB!
The pain is def. worth it at the end..... I can't wait for my finals to finish in May.. and look back and laugh :)</p>
<p>Every few months this same thread pops up and goes in the same direction and ends in the same place!!!</p>
<p>Can't we just cut to the chase? As it has turned out every other time we bring this up, IT DEPENDS ON THE SCHOOL AND THE PROGRAM. Some AP programs and courses at some schools are BETTER than some IB programs and/or courses at some schools, and vice versa.</p>
<p>The threads says ALWAYS says stuff like what you guys have posted:</p>
<p>"IB teaches you to express your thoughts in words, in essay format, in analysis, in anything. And it really tests for your understanding of the material, not just cookie-cutter facts....For Math HL, I've gotta say, remembering a formula won't do you any good. In fact, IB gives you many formulas for the test. Your job is to apply them, and understand them completely. That's why I love IB. You really learn." </p>
<p>PUH-LEEZE!!! My kids and their peers took AP courses in which there was VERY LITTLE "cookie cutter" fact stuff - they spent the years learning to research, analyze, apply what they know, and write!!! And math --- after three years of Integrated Math followed by pre-calculus and AP Calculus, my kids learned MANY different ways to solve AND UNDERSTAND problems. Do you really believe that American kids without IB who get into MIT etc. don't understand math - they just apply formulas????</p>
<p>Praise IB if you want, but NOT by generalizing about AP or setting up straw men to knock down!!!</p>
<p>Yes, IB can be WONDERFUL. But -- -Surprise!!! - thousands and thousands and thousands of kids - like my own in a top ten LAC and a top ten University -- manage to do very well in great schools, get Fullbrights, get on the Dean's List, etc. etc. etc. etc. WITHOUT IB diplomas!</p>
<p>Again - IT DEPENDS ON THE SCHOOL. A cousin's kid followed the IB program and my kids can think rings around her - and got into far better schools. Other kids I know did great in IB.</p>
<p>The only purpose for these threads in the past has been for people to brag or bash!</p>
<p>Why do IB supporters feel compelled to compare their program to something they refer to as an AP program? I do not see how such a comparison has any validity since the offering of 30+ outside exams does not constitute a comprehensive and integrated program. There are indeed bad schools that teach to the tests, but that also include many schools that offer diluted IB programs. </p>
<p>Would it not make more sense to compare the IB program to the typical college preparatory programs offered at most selective schools? From my vantage point, I do not see many of the recognized high schools switching their programs to the IB; it seems that they prefer to leave this panacea to a bunch of mediocre public high schools. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, the comment of AP being magnets for grade grubbing is laughable, especially since most IB programs consider EVERY class to deserve a GPA bonus.</p>
<p>I think the difference to me, as a parent who hasn't had a child take either but get into one of the top colleges in the country anyway is that AP is a course by course basis.
You can take AP biology without having to take AP Spanish.
IB is the whole shebang.IB kids can be isolated from other students at their schools if their participation is limited to their classes.
IB is great if you are going to be attending school overseas, they understand it. Schools here don't always unfortunately, just as they don't understand "running start"
I like AP at my daughters school because you aren't required to have As in everything to apply. If kids are like I was, they aren't going to have A's because they don't see the point of "grade grubbing" if the class sucks. To have a chance to take a challenging class, may bring out strengths they never realized.
Ib requires students to take the whole program. While I realize that schools do allow students to enter IB without having straight As, it is a pretty comprehensive program and you can't do just half of it.</p>
<p>Is there any relative success comparison between the two approaches. Do colleges see a difference?</p>
<p>Well it is true that colleges to see a difference... Of course there is a difference...
But majority of applicants do AP (since it's the american system), so it shouldn't matter too much.</p>
<p>But if you have the opportunity to do IB.. by all means, go for IT!!!!!</p>
<p>I understand that there are pros-cons to IB/AP. I posted the question in the parent's forum because the kids would have a bias towards the system that they most familiar with. I have only been acquainted with College Confid. for less than a month, so I beg your indulgence to help me in understanding the merits.</p>
<p>In our case, Kid did IB. Graduated HS high in class and doing well in college. Pretty sure if IB really mattered, because he is pretty focused and always exploring things.</p>
<p>My concern is that the school district has spent $$ for the program. Is/was the effort worthwhile? Looking at your other posts, you identify yourself as an ivy interviewer; Do you see a difference between the programs or should there be any AP/IB programs at all? Why should Calc and philosophy be even taught in HS-maybe these courses should be kept in the community college/college arena and the public's money be spent in areas for the greater good?</p>
<p>Since you have interviewed many kids and maybe tracked them-what is your experience?</p>
<p>OK. I did an "IB" archive search in CC. My questions are answered. I'm also sure that all the questions in CC have already have been asked and answered in great detail. Maybe the reason why the administators started a new format?</p>
<p>Itstoomuch --- </p>
<p>You asked about my experience as an Ivy interviewer. All I can say is what I said above - it depends on the program. I can't say any general statements like "Kids who took IB had a better chance of getting into an Ivy," because that is just simply false. My school rejected IB kids all the time. As for AP kids, it depends on how good the course was. Some kids fill on up the "soft" APs when top schools basically just want to see AP USHistory, AP Calc, the AP sciences, languages, and literature.</p>
<p>There's no rule...for example, my son is one of the top students at his top ten LAC, and is also "pretty focused an always exploring things." His best friend is the same way at a top three Ivy. They both took AP; your son took IB. See what I mean? The only thing I object to is the false generalization that IB is ALWAYS better than AP.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, No, one doesn't have to do the 'whole thing.' There are many students at my D's class who did partial IB by choosing the subjects they wanted. A few took only the IB english and did all other classes at 'regular' level. Those students earned certificates for the IB subjects for which they tested. This is best for those students who might not be as strong in a given area or have no interest in the learning a certain subject at advanced level. In that way it is similar to what a student can choose to do for AP. So, a student can very well do half of the program. Many students who want a fuller life of EC's or who need to work in HS can easily do it.
As for the 'diluted' IB comment: A school cannot offer an incomplete program, it must offer a full slate of the required subjects. It can however pick and choose which languages to offer or which sciences to offer. Often it is too costly to offer all of Bio, Chem, and Physics because to offer each of them, they must(I believe) offer the Pre-IB in year 9th or 10th in the subject along with the 2 year program in 11-12. Many schools offer only 2 of the above sciences. </p>
<p>That said, to paraphrase Veronwe: The program is, as with any program, highly dependent on the quality of the teachers and the school.</p>
<p>Thus you are saying that for school to change from AP to IB the effort may not be worth the cost. That it may be more for prestige. That the kids won't get a broader understanding-just a different style of teaching. I'm neither for or against the IB program, just trying to understand better the debate that our school system took 8-9 years ago. thx.</p>
<p>Well, I don't think it just for the prestige. I don't think it only a different style of teaching, but indeed a broader understanding. I am very much in favor of the IB, I was only trying to address the comments about the requirement to take the full program and the diluted format. I've had one who went through the program and we all thought it was the best possible HS program that she could find in our area. We had returned from overseas at the end of her Soph year and it was what she had started in her International school and really wanted to complete. I would like to say it has been money well spent for the school district, but I really don't know how much it takes to run the program with additional training for teachers, etc. I just know our child loved it and feels she is doing well in college because of what she learned and how she learned in IB. From what I read here, there are many who feel the same about AP.</p>
<p>My take on IB- as it is taught/presented at my children's public high school, I would not encourage my second child to participate in IB. My son has done the modified IB certificate program instead of the full diploma which requires an extended research project and community service beyond what he did; he is a musician and was more concerned with being able to achieve in music and couldn't commit to those aspects of IB, so in a sense he approached IB as a student might approach AP, selecting classes that he felt fit. He is a senior and has taken BC Calculus at the IB higher level as well as IB HL English language and literature. As a junior he studied 6 hours a day, 7 days a week. Senior year has been slightly less demanding. In addition to being obviously hard working and motivated, he is bright; has 800s in math on the SAT and SATII math 2c, 710 verbal SAT, but his grades unweighted are too low for some merit scholarships he would love to consider due to IB. His school considers IB to be far tougher than AP; colleges see no difference. Had he taken AP instead of IB at this particular school, he would have a significantly higher unweighted GPA than he has.</p>
<p>Another consideration; his friend said that she wanted to go to Harvard as a 9th grader but now, after the grueling IB experience, is applying to schools with a more balanced quality of life. My son had spent years working with MIT grads in the Duke TIP program and thought, until his junior year, that nothing would be better than going to MIT. Now, he is applying to LACs. He has no desire to work his fingers to the bone in college. In his situation, I think it is an excellent choice; however, I regret that his high school experience wasn't more balanced so that he could approach this college selection process without a strong bias against schools with a reputation for being incredibly demanding. Were he not currently burned-out, he might actually enjoy the rigorous intellectual atmosphere of some of the schools he refuses to look at.</p>
<p>The full IB diploma program is stressful for the students who undertake it. Since the examinations are not held until May of the final year in high school (in some cases the 13th year), there is no way where exam results play into admissions. Predicted grades are looked at but they are not the final results that students receive in July for the Tok and extended essays and exam results from their 6 other courses. To undertake the IB full diploma program should be a personal decision. I believe it prepares students who do undertake it for the academic realities of college life. It teaches a way of thinking, of writing, of time management (fitting in arts and sports and service), of approaching academics. </p>
<p>I agree with Jax. To finish your IB final year, apply for college and in my son's case prepare auditions, compositions is difficult, demanding and to be honest, as a mother I can't wait until this year is over for both of us. I keep telling him how wonderful college will be for him; that it is worth the effort. I'll keep you posted.</p>
<p>I'm doing the IB now... and I have to say it is extremely demanding and it doesn't get any easier.
But having said that I think I've had tremendous benefits from going through the IB diploma... It is a rigorous program.. very intellectually stimulating and I think it is a great opportunity for the right students. It may not "fit" for others, but I would definitely recommend it to any student who wants a very all rounded, balanced education.. someone who is interested in many disciplines.. The TOK course and the extended essay really stretch you!</p>
<p>Most people who graduated from my school with an IB diploma says that college's workload becomes so little compared to the workload in IB.. I am taking the IB diploma myself and I think IB diploma is really challenging (there are lots of work and most of the times you will sleep 4-5 hours a day).. but it depends on the courses you are taking.. for example IB HL Arts is known for its high workload.. IB HL math and chem is really hard.. while there are also some easy IB courses.. However.. it all depends on how the school system works.. my school systems is really strict on the IB rules.. internal assesment are due in 1 week, science labs due in 2 days.. and etc.. while other schools (in my city) has internal assesment due for 1 month and science lab due at the end of the semester.. which makes their workload really easy compared to my school..</p>
<p>Jax. are you in Jacksonville by any chance? IB is incredibly big down here in the public schools....UNiv of Fla. apparently has more IB grads than any university in the country..</p>