<p>raddad, I believe that was the point. Mamakin didn’t say that was a list of the “best” or “famous” or “top” or “snooty” schools, but said that it includes quite a few (doesn’t mean all) of the smaller (less well known) programs.</p>
<p>We are discussing a plan B/C/D here.</p>
<p>Yes, imagep, that was exactly my intention. We’ve all heard of the big programs, it’s the “what to do if” the son/daughter is not accepted, or doesn’t get the big scholarship at those top schools that I’m concerned about. Whether it is still even worthwhile to pursue the dream at a lesser-known program is a valid question. But when you have a determined rocker, it’s best to have plans A/B/C/D.</p>
<p>One distinction in the whole commercial music program phenom that I always wonder about is the curriculum – eg actually working on the musicianship vs. Taking courses about working in the industry. I can’t tell on that list whether those programs are designed for performers and train same, or whether they’re designed for non-musicians who want to work in the industry as promoters, etc.
When my son was looking, one of the key determinations he made was that he wanted to continue studying music, and found that programs called “commercial” often weren’t designed for that so much as geared to a business-marketing style set of courses specific to music. I think that’s why he gravitated toward programs at schools with known schools of music.</p>
<p>So I think that’s one consideration for folks involved in this confusing category – does said kid want and need to be developing their personal musicianship, and do both, or are they simply looking to study the business and marketing (or even engineering) aspects to apply to other musicians. That was a question we asked our son, and in his case it was a mix of own musical quest but also a desire to produce/engineer others. That answer helped us figure out which schools to be looking at.</p>
<p>The other phenom in commercial music that always occurs to me is the volume of talented contemporary/alternative artists with academic backgrounds such as english, liberal arts, etc. Like film, it could be said the best education for an artist might be a liberal arts education wherein one develops their “voice” as an artist. With film school, there is always the camp that says first you have to have something to say, so do filmmaking as a grad degree, not undergrad ;)</p>
<p>In terms of a plan b for kids interested in performing commercial music, that might make sense.</p>
<p>I think pursuing a dream is always worthwhile, if if it isn’t at the top school. </p>
<p>When we are talking about popular music, really, what percent of famous pop stars went to a conservatory? Like maybe 2%?</p>
<p>I agree with you imagep that pursuing a dream is worthwhile. There are people who “like music” and decide that is enough reason to pursue music in college. Some don’t have a music background of any significance. At 18 when many of us don’t know what to study in school, music is one thing many people like. Some schools create commercial music programs to tailor to these students desires and the quality of the program is not high and the value of the $ spent questionable. </p>
<p>If my child wanted to pursue a career in music and was not able to get into a top program and they wanted to perform I would suggest they defer school, form a band and start seeing what they can do. Or go to school for something else and do the band on the side. If they wanted to be on the business side and couldn’t get into a top program I would suggest they find a way to get a low level job in a talent agency, booking agent or whatever avenue their dream was and work hard for probably little pay and learn the busines that way. </p>
<p>I have family and friends who have had a result that was predictable from a distance (graduate from commercial music program, never make a living at it) but parents supported child’s pursuit of their “dream” because they liked music. I wouldn’t pay $20-50K/year for my child to be in a program that wasn’t top notch heading into a field that is this difficult. I think I would be doing them a disservice.</p>
<p>Agree with raddad. When it comes to commercial music (as opposed to classical), there are many ways to pursue that dream without school. </p>
<p>In fact, an argument can be made - and often is, by my son - that college is in fact not the best place to pursue success in such a career. Thus far, he is managing to pursue his dream both inside and outside of school, and at least at USC, the exposure to great opportunities, as well as other really talented musicians and top industry professionals is making that worthwhile. So far.</p>
<p>Still, my son puts as much time into non-school rehearsing, gigging, recording, connecting, promoting, etc., as he does into school. It’s like having a demanding job while studying. Basically busting his ass.</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with needing a high standard of talent to major in commercial music performance, or any music performance program. I’m concerned that making a college/no-college decision based on getting into a top program may be setting the bar too high. My son is a vocalist, so how many slots would that represent? Say maybe 5 in each of the top three programs? So he would have to be one of the top 15 male rock vocalists in the country just to get in, plus be in probably the top 5 to get a scholarship. Thus my keen interest in this “plan B” thread.</p>
<p>I have to agree with jazz/shreddermom and raddad 100%. There are plenty of paths to take. We have had the college vs. non college path discussion in our house plenty of times. My son has had a lot of exposure to successful musicians and bands, plenty of which who have not gone to college for music. He is in a band that has gotten a lot of attention in our city, has had great opportunities, opened up for national acts, recording CDs. He does make the same great argument that Jazz’s son has made and his points are well taken. But, as a mom who has sent our son to private school for 12 years you can bet what path I want him to take 
I strongly believe that college is also about learning life lessons and making great connections. A good Plan B would be to go to a great lib arts college with a strong music program. Bard, for example, has a nice music program outside their conservatory and use some of the same professors. Also, if your son is a vocalist I would take a good look at Berklee because they are one of the top contemporary music programs in the country and certainly have more than 5 slots to fill in their vocal program. If he is a sophomore or junior in HS, you may want to consider sending him to one of their summer programs. That way he will get to experience the school and they will get to see his talents. We are still going through the college process so I do not have all the answers either. At times I get stressed out over the limited number of college options but at the same time I am having fun taking him to auditions, etc. Don’t worry, it will all work itself out!</p>
<p>poprockmom, we may have the same son! After seven years of paying for private school, and almost 2 years of USC, we may soon come to the big crossroads. We just hope the choice is an obvious one and that if things don’t work out as hoped, he’ll return to school. There are already two successful “drop outs” from my son’s year of Thornton pop admits (as in record deals and opportunities that SHOULD be taken NOW). </p>
<p>mamakin, I don’t think anyone is saying that kids should make a college vs. no college decision on getting into a top music program. Just that there may be better ways to pursue that dream (a great liberal arts school, majoring in something other than music while pursuing music on the side, OR even putting college on hold, etc.) than spending money on a pop music program with questionable merit or value for the money. </p>
<p>Some kids (like mine) are IN their program of choice and still not sure it’s the best use of their time and… my money. Hope that was clearer.</p>
<p>@jazz: In order to experience success, sometimes you need to take risks, especially when you are young and resilient. As a mom, I can feel your uneasiness but I also understand that those type of opportunities are rare and need to be explored when they are given to you! There will always be college and Thorton will probably be supportive and thrilled for him. When my s was auditioning there last month, the Director of Admissions did mention that they had several pop students already signed. Since it is such a young program, I am sure there will be more, especially since they take only the best. Best of luck to your son in whatever he does. You should be so proud!</p>
<p>My S is a freshman in the commercial composition/arranging program at Belmont. Belmont was actually his Plan C; Plan A was Berklee and Plan B was NYU. He also applied to the classical compsition program at Temple and was not accepted. He was accepted at Berklee but with no scholarship, and not accepted at NYU. He got a very nice merit scholarship at Belmont and a great financial aid package. We insisted that he apply to Belmont and he is very happy there (lives right down the hall from Legion54’s S, small world!) He is taking basic music courses this year; we will know more about the program next year when he starts composition classes. He had a band and has done a lot of composing, but really wanted to go to college. It has done wonders for his playing (guitar) and singing, and it’s obvious he is more confident in his musical knowledge now than he was. Next year he plans to move off campus and start a band (it is very hard for freshmen at Belmont to have bands because they have to live in the dorm and can’t get practrice rooms.) He is also making connections with students in the music business and prioduction programs, which will be great when he is ready to start trying to publish his music. </p>
<p>He has a few musical friends back home who are going the community college route. Two of them are vocalists. They did not think they were good enough to get into a 4-year commerical music program (vopice is the most competitive instument at all the schools.) They are also happy, our local CC has an excellent basic theory program and its graduates have gotten into Berklee and other good music schools. They are able to do a lot of local gigs and take private voice lessons, and also save a ton of money before going to the more expensive prestige school later. I think this is always a viable Plan B for any potential musician. </p>
<p>I’m keeping an eye on these threads because my D is now threatening to major in music production. She is only in ninth grade so I have 3 years to talk her out of it. ;-)</p>
<p>Looks like my D is going to execute an alternate plan herself. After being accepted to Berklee with not enough funds to attend, she applied to an in state LAC with a BA Jazz Studies program on the advice of her high school jazz studies teacher. This was a last minute application but they all loved each other when she auditioned and it is now her first choice and she will likely attend. Lots of playing opportunity according to the folks she talked to. We are waiting for something in the mail to make it official. She is thinking of deferring at Berklee to leave that option open a while longer but get her feet wet at the LAC and re-evaluate in a year.</p>
<p>My D was accepted at Berklee, Belmont and USC, but with no financial aid (and 2 other kids in school) we opted for a local option (Azusa Pacific). We never ended up visiting Belmont, but living in So Cal, had plenty of exposure to the USC Pop Music program. We went to finals performances for multiple years. Frankly, the performances were solid, but nothing special. My D and her twin were in a summer music program at the LA Music Academy a couple of years ago and after one week, the performances were on par with what we heard at USC. We do think the connections at the bigger name schools are a huge selling point, but graduating with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt was just too much on the negative side. The APU staff is filled with professors that have advanced degrees from Thornton, Eastman, etc., so the quality of education is good, and the music program has a great reputation. Not much is posted about these smaller schools, but there are plenty of them that deserve consideration.</p>