Community College/Law Admissions Concerns

Graduate School Law School
1

Hello,

I am a currently enrolled Senior at a 4 year university and planning on graduating with a degree from the 4 year school prior to applying to law school. However, as I want to save money for Law School I may take a few required classes for graduation at a community college and transfer these credits to the four year school as it would it be less expensive…the bigger concern is as well I spent my first year at a community college before I had considered law school

Would my application be read any less favorably amongst T14 schools due to community college credits being possibly received as less rigorous ? …I spoke with a T14 admissions counselor, over the phone who said mentioned that while she is not involved in reading applications nor part of the decisions making committee, she mentioned in admissions, community college work is evaluated differently compared to undergraduate work done at a 4 year university …However, I called UT Law and they said it was not uncommon at all for applicants to have some community college coursework completed on their transcripts. …At first I thought this discrepancy was due to the difference in the UNSWR rankings ( the school I called was at #7/8 and UT being at #15 so therefor Penn can be more selective in admitting applicants)…However, I was further confused when I read an interview with Harvard Law Admissions dean Jessica Soban who said that Harvard applicants come from all educational backgrounds and some have started at CC’s, since Harvard is even more selective than Penn

i am not sure if an addendum would be needed or not since a common assumption is that CC courses are less rigorous, two of my courses took are actually the opposite and very challenging, in these two courses only 3% and 4% of the students received A’s…I also will have a cumulative GPA in the 3.6-3.7 range upon my December graduation and no glaring disparities between my GPA from the community college and my 4 year school.

I mention this concern because my freshman year was spent at a community college before I had considered both law school and a legal career. The school’s I am looking at are applying to the entire T14 along with some “super regionals” such as UCLA, Vanderbilt and Texas

Thanks for the consideration and advice you may have

2

While the main reasons for taking CC courses would be financial…I can also see it helping me in admissions…

I am currently in the 3.5-3.6 GPA range and hoping to graduate within the 3.6-3.7 range by my December graduation

3

I can’t see a community college helping. Yes, a person here and a person there at Harvard might have a community college credit on the undergraduate transcript, but most have the Ivies, Stanford or Duke only.

If you have the choice, I’d take classes at your 4-year school, particularly since your grades there are similar.

Demosthenes, another poster, will be responding to state that all that matters is GPA/LSAT, and that even a 3.81 in basketweaving from Local State U. trumps a 3.809 in electrical engineering from MIT. That’s not the case at all, actually.

4

Why do you say that? on myLSN and other websites there seems a strong correlation between higher GPA/LSAT and higher rates of acceptance…,in your hypothetical case I would agree candidate B has a better chance but that is a bit of an extreme comparison brought up

Especially since some law schools have an unofficial “GPA floor” of around a 3.6

5

Yes, there is a correlation between higher GPA/LSAT numbers and acceptance rates, and while those are the most important factors, those aren’t the only factors. You’ll be going into the admissions process with a GPA that’s not going to put you in the “must admit” category; you’ll be a “maybe admit” candidate unless your LSAT score is off the charts, and so you’ll need other factors to make you stand out. Difficulty of undergraduate school and major is a factor that can play a role–however small. Unfortunately community college classes won’t be taken with the same level of respect as, say, electrical engineering classes from MIT will be.

6

@Eagles0517: No one will care about your CC credits for law school admission purposes. Employers might potentially care, but very few ask for undergrad transcripts so there wouldn’t be any real way for most to know. There’s no need for an addendum on your app. A 3.7 is a solid start, and with a good LSAT score the top schools should open their doors for you.

Oh, and so you don’t worry about what HappyAlumnus says, here is a [url=<a href=“http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/undergrads.html%5Dlist%5B/url”>http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/undergrads.html]list[/url] of the Harvard Law class. See for yourself how true it is that the class is full of “the Ivies, Stanford or Duke only.”

7

@Eagles0517:

You can go with what the T14 admissions counselor herself said about community college work, or you can go with what Demosthenes said.

I’d vouch for the T14 admissions counselor, particularly as Demosthenes refuses to give any information whatsoever about whether or not Demosthenes even went to law school and, if so, where, and what legal career, if any, has followed.

Also, I NEVER stated that the Harvard (where I went) class is “full of ‘the Ivies, Stanford or Duke only.’”–particularly since I didn’t go to any of those schools for undergrad.

What I said was that “most” (see my post) students at HLS have those undergrad schools only (i.e., no additional undergrad schools) on their resumes. The Harvard class has people from a slew of schools in it, but most of those schools have just 1 or 2 people every few years. The Ivies, Stanford and Duke are by far the largest feeder schools, with them (and their peers) making up most (i.e., a majority) of each HLS class. Those people have just those schools on their transcripts–not a community college at all–and that’s who you’re mostly competing against for a slot.

Of course, a community college will not preclude you from going anywhere. When I was at HLS, there was one person who came from a school equivalent to Oral Roberts University(not saying that a community college is like that, but it just shows that yes, you can potentially go anywhere regardless of what the school name is on your undergraduate transcript).

Again, with your numbers, you will need to make your application as strong as you can in other ways, as it could end up being a roll of the dice for you. Get some post-college work experience, have some amazing personal stories, take the hardest classes you can, etc

8

no addendum needed. Actually, it might be perceived as an minor annoyance, as in ‘why is this applicant wasting my time?’ (The cc course might be plenty rigorous, but in general, the competition for those top grades is not the same as that of a 4-year.)

A’s are what is needed for LS, wherever you can obtain the most.

btw: you might check with your 4-year college. Some will not accept transfer credits during senior year…

9

What would be an annoyance? Writing an addendum or applying to law schools with CC credits?

10

Wouldn’t you agree though if two candidates had stellar LSATs ( 172+)…it would be better to get a 3.65 overall even if it means taking some CC courses…compared to a 3.50/172 applicant who took all courses at the same college.

Candidate B would be shut out at a few schools regardless of LSAT ( UC Berkeley, Harvard, Chicago…you don’t see 3.5’s and below getting into those schools regardless of LSAT-------Wether or not the atmosphere makes sense or not a 3.7 Liberal Arts student has a much better shot in Law Admissions than a 3.3 Engineer even if both applicants had the same intellectual ability.

11

@Eagles0517, what’s your concern: financial issues or being able to make the same grades in your 4-year university as in a community college?

If you take classes at a community college because you can’t make top grades at your 4-year college, then that needs to be fixed asap.

12

Yes.

An addendum worth the adcom’s time reading is for life altering things: my mom died the night before I took the LSAT; I was in a car crash & hospitalized for 2 weeks in the middle the semester, but tried to tough it out and earned all C’s; I’m a single parent and work two jobs to pay the bills, so study time is limited…

No question that a 3.65 beats a 3.5 nearly every time, at least for the unhooked. OTOH, a 3.65/172 from HYPSM beats a 3.65/172 from Podunk State every time.

Rankings matter to adcoms, and GPA+LSAT are the primary ranking’s criteria. Major and undergrad college is not evaluated by USNews.

13

I agree with what bluebayou says.

To add, part of law school’s US News ranking is placement. Where you go to undergrad, and your work experience prior to law school, certainly helps in placement, and so those factors count somewhat (though far less than GPA/LSAT)–work experience is more and more wanted by law schools these days, particularly HLS and some others.

14

Wouldn’t employers care much more about what law school you went to than undergrad?..I suppose UG institution and UG grades may matter a bit for getting an internship after your 1l year ( since you only have one semeseter’s worth of grades in the books)

15

Yes, where you go to law school and your law school grades definitely count the most in law firm recruiting during law school. Your undergraduate institution can, in a very small way, somewhat offset your law school if your undergraduate school was either much more or much less prominent, and if you go to a prestigious undergraduate school and a prestigious law school, your undergraduate school can just help boost your amazing marketability.

16

Work experience is definitely valued at Northwestern. I’ve seen no evidence that other schools care. Employers really like it though, so I always recommend prospective students get a year or two if they can. Most big employers do not care about your undergrad. Some, however, do, and they will request undergrad transcripts. A cc-heavy transcript may count against you in those instances.

17

@Eagles0517, see post #6 in the “Best major (choosing between better employability and poli sci).” thread; there is an article there about work experience prior to going to law school. Demosthenes, you might want to look at posts #6 and #7 in that thread, to refresh your memory about the topic.

18

Oops, it’s posts 5 through 7 (not just 6 and 7) in the “Best major (choosing between better employability and poli sci).” thread.