<p>Is community service an absolute must? My son has done some but not much but he has some other excellent extracurriculars.</p>
<p>Could anyone compare Georgetown to Wash U and Northwestern in terms of how difficult it is to get in and anything else?</p>
<p>Also, would it help if he's a US citizen and happens to apply from another country? Father may get an assignment overseas for senior year.</p>
<p>Community service is certainly a good thing to have on one’s resume, but it is not a sine qua non. I didn’t have much in the way of charitable work to list on my application.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t be very accurate to compare “how difficult it is to get in” for the three institutions as a whole, since it is to varying degrees dependent on what programs your son is applying to. More broadly, though, the admission rates and standardized test ranges are publicly available.</p>
<p>Applying from another country wouldn’t convey any inherent advantage. Candidates are sorted by what school they apply from for logistical purposes, but applications are reviewed holistically either way.</p>
<p>There is definitely a geographic diversity edge. For most universities, applying from South Dakota is much more advantageous than applying from New Jersey. Applying as an international student who is US citizen and doesn’t have any visa or financial aid issues is usually also very advantageous. But Georgetown seems to be kind of unique in some ways - don’t look at writing section, need 3 SAT IIs, don’t take “interest” into account, etc. That’s why I’m asking.</p>
<p>Also, son would be applying to B-school.</p>
<p>Yes, geographic diversity is something that’s taken into account. However, Georgetown gets enough applicants from abroad - including plenty of U.S. citizens who attend International or American schools - that completing one’s senior year abroad while having spent the previous three in the States is not likely to make a material difference. The benefit to admitting a 2nd or 3rd person from South Dakota over a comparable 603rd applicant from Jersey is that you’re getting someone who grew up in South Dakota, with the range of different experiences that entails. A year abroad can certainly be life-changing, but unless this overseas assignment is in Kampala or Ulan Bator or something, it’s not going to stand out that much.</p>
<p>Are you a dean at Georgetown? Just wondering if you have any inside information about this.</p>
<p>My daughter did the exact same thing - moved to England as a senior and applied to college from there. Schools were very, very excited about her because they like to say they’re “10% international” but real internationals have issues with visas and financial aid that US citizens don’t.</p>
<p>I don’t know if Georgetown is more idealistic than these other schools, do you?</p>
<p>Amazon, my S’s community service was okay - probably a bit below average, and EC’s were probably just above average compared to the go-getters applying at this level. And he was admitted EA - albeit with scores that probably put him in the 80th percentile of those admitted. So, service (or lack/low) of it is not a deal killer. But, since you’ve got another 8 - 9 months before the application goes in, why not kick up the pace a little. 200 hours seems to be the standard for community service; there should be time to do it if your student is determined to get in. Also, for most schools it helps if you’re a leader/supervisor/initiator of some sort, rather than just a worker bee/‘grunt’ who does the work. (Not that there’s something wrong with being a grunt (military term), but schools do like to see leadership.)</p>
<p>amazon: I used to work in admissions. Everything I say is my opinion only. I like to think it is a relatively well-informed opinion, based on my experiences, but it should not be considered “inside information” or anything like that.</p>
<p>I don’t know whether one could characterize it as a question of being “idealistic.” You’re right that visas and especially financial aid are a big issue. With a few obvious exceptions, most schools don’t have the money to meet 100% of financial need for international students, even if they offer that for US citizens (since Americans’ aid is heavily government-subsidized). As a result, the international cohort at top tier schools tends to trend very affluent. The kinds of foreigners who are sending their kids to schools like St. Stephen’s in Rome or ISSH in Tokyo - much less a ritzy boarding school like Le Rosay - tend to be quite wealthy. Going through the expense and hassle of applying to American colleges as a foreigner is usually the province of either the very well-off or the exceptionally driven. So if a university is looking to raise or maintain a steady % of students from abroad, it makes sense for them to find American ex-pats to be particularly attractive.</p>
<p>With Georgetown, the difference isn’t one of idealism but reach. Very few American universities actively recruit abroad the way GU does. The alumni interviewer program is a key part of this. Also, the U.S. Foreign Service is crawling with GU alumni and the MSB has been focusing on international business for a long time, which helps a lot with the name recognition. The SFS and the various international-flavored majors like IBusiness, IHealth, etc. also tend to appeal to international folks. So I suspect that Georgetown’s competitive international applicant pool is deeper than many comparable schools. I don’t have any figures to give you to that effect, but I can give you an anecdote: my roommate for my first two years at Georgetown was an American who attended the American School in Japan. Through him, I got to know quite a few people with similar backgrounds.</p>
<p>for all this experience and advise, has anyone on this thread visited GU, sat through the info session, interviewed, and spoken with GU’s current regional directors? </p>
<p>After looking at most of the reputable schools in the East and northeast, it’s clear the GU wants people in their university community. Giving back and looking out for others is something that GU looks for in its admission candidates, moreso than other schools in the US. They tell the applicants that the Jesuit philosophies are still used in admissions - not as religious criteria, but in the idea that each person admitted to the GU community is expected to have that giving spirit, and the best way to predict that is to look at past activity. </p>
<p>Three SAT II’s aren’t going to do it… Sorry, but GU, moreso than any other place, WANTS that spirit of community service in everyone they admit…</p>
<p>dzleprechaun: so maybe my son will be more of a fit at Georgetown after having lived in the UK for 2 years and then Singapore. </p>
<p>goldenpup: son should try to devote more time to community service. he’s been very, very involved in debate which is why he hasn’t been able to do this but he should try to step it up during off season. I would think that in the Jesuitical tradition leadership in community service wouldn’t be the be/all end/all but actual service?</p>
<p>goldenpup: *for all this experience and advise, has anyone on this thread visited GU, sat through the info session, interviewed, and spoken with GU’s current regional directors? *</p>
<p>Indeed I have, as well as having worked at admissions.</p>
<p>*
Three SAT II’s aren’t going to do it… Sorry, but GU, moreso than any other place, WANTS that spirit of community service in everyone they admit… *</p>
<p>I think it’s pretty difficult to make definitive statements, since we’re talking about a secondary criterion that can be very difficult to quantify (it’s not just about hours). Certainly there is a definite emphasis on community service, social justice, being “men and women for others,” etc., and that is reflected in the admissions process as well. But academics, and specifically school performance, is by far the most important factor. It is also understood that there are many ways of giving back to one’s community, including the school community, and not all of them correspond to the usual community service activities one thinks of.</p>
<p>Also, with more and more schools (including public schools) requiring X number of community service hours to graduate, mere participation is becoming less and less of an accurate indicator of genuine student interest in charitable activities. Ultimately, that is what schools want: students who are passionate and self-motivated about particular interests and pursue them with energy and enthusiasm. Those interests are inevitably going to be different for different people. Community service is certainly looked upon very positively, and perhaps moreso at GU than at other places. But there’s no expectation that it will be everyone’s passion.</p>
<p>Also, three SAT IIs do, in fact, do it for plenty of applicants. Not by themselves, of course, but as part of a superior academic profile. That remains the most important part of an application.</p>
<p>Amazon: I don’t see it as a question of fit. Your son could be a good fit for Georgetown, and vice versa, regardless of whether he spent time living abroad in 1 or 2 or 20 or 0 countries. Your original question was framed as “would it help if…” so I was responding strictly to the issue of whether completing a senior year abroad would convey some inherent benefit.</p>
<p>"Very few American universities actively recruit abroad the way GU does. The alumni interviewer program is a key part of this. Also, the U.S. Foreign Service is crawling with GU alumni and the MSB has been focusing on international business for a long time, which helps a lot with the name recognition. The SFS and the various international-flavored majors like IBusiness, IHealth, etc. also tend to appeal to international folks. So I suspect that Georgetown’s competitive international applicant pool is deeper than many comparable schools. I don’t have any figures to give you to that effect, but I can give you an anecdote: my roommate for my first two years at Georgetown was an American who attended the American School in Japan. Through him, I got to know quite a few people with similar backgrounds. "</p>
<p>They recruit overseas and have many students with international backgrounds including Americans who have studied overseas. My son will have lived in Singapore (a city-state with 3 cultures - Chinese, Indian and Malay) and England. </p>
<p>The proof that they don’t want international students is that they have so many of them?</p>
<p>I don’t believe I said anywhere that Georgetown doesn’t want international students…</p>
<p>I actually spoke to someone who lived in Asia for a long time today and she thought Georgetown was more on the radar of international students than let’s say Northwestern or Wash U so you may be correct that being international might not be as much of an advantage there.</p>
<p>Maybe he shouldn’t apply there early action - it doesn’t give you an advantage anyway - and if he doesn’t get into whatever school he does apply early decision, he can apply there.</p>