<p>If you are comparing Berkeley to Ivy League or other selective private institutions, you’ll see a significant difference when it comes to cost. Fully 67% of all undergraduates receive financial assistance and Berkeley educates more Pell Grant recipients than all of the Ivy Leagues combined. An impressive 88% of Berkeley Engineering students graduate in four years and Berkeley financial aid offers are designed to meet full need as determined by federal guidelines to help make sure college is accessible and affordable</p>
<p>Sorry mtmmoma, not anymore at uc’s. The uc chancellor is the person who announced that most BS degrees will now take 5 years because classes will not be available due to the financial crisis the uc/state is experiencing.</p>
<p>And IF u can get in a hyps they are often less expensive once the merit or finaid is included. And comparing UCLA to Stanford is pretty big leap in quality.</p>
<p>What is driving some of the gaming in our district is the supply-demand relationship for AP classes. Ten years ago, our high school had hummed happily along, offering a menu of classes of different levels. Kids took what they wanted to and were prepared to take. But with the changing demographics and increasingly competitive nature of college admissions, more and more students began signing up for the AP classes. The number of sections of each course initially increased in some cases to meet the demand, but then was ultimately limited by the fact that teaching these courses is a lot of work and most teachers didn’t want to teach more than one or two sections. Also, there just aren’t that many people qualified to teach the upper level math and science AP’s, so the school couldn’t just add more teachers very easily.</p>
<p>So, the computer doing the scheduling was programmed to give as many children as possible their course selections. Of the kids who met the prerequisites and signed up for a particular AP class, the ones who actually got it on their schedule were selected by the computer. However, greater numbers of smart kids were being shut out of AP classes due to overenrollment, and undercurrents of worry and fear starting swirling among the ranks of concerned parents.</p>
<p>The watershed moment came about 7 years ago. That year, the very bright child of a mother I knew was shut out of AP Biology by the computer. This girl wanted to be pre-med, and was gunning for the top colleges. What incensed her mother was that certain children who had gotten into AP Bio were less stellar students than her D–they had lower grades in science, hadn’t attended the local Ivy’s science program for high schoolers, etc. She complained and complained until they let her D into the class.</p>
<p>The following year, a system was implemented that required students to apply to get in AP classes. Thus, for certain courses more qualifications were needed than simply having the prerequisites and being a smart kid. That changed our educational landscape. Not for the majority, who were oblivious of the whole drama, but for the upper 5% group who was competing for a limited supply. And so it began!</p>
<p>Actually regarding Cal Engineering, Freshmen are allowed 8 semesters to graduate. Junior transfers are allowed 4 semesters to graduate. If you need another semester to graduate, you need to petition the associate dean for permission. Cal Engineering students are required to graduate in four years. This is taken directly from the College of Engineering Announcement Handbook for 2010-2011. I have a son who is an engineering student at Cal and I know this to be true.</p>
<p>Ummm…the University of Maryland will allow freshmen to take graduate courses. We know a number of students who have done that, particularly in CS and math, as well as some students who took upper-div UG and grad courses during HS. </p>
<p>A certain young man of my acquaintance took three graduate courses at UChicago as a first-year. No hoops, no red tape, no placement tests. </p>
<p>For all of the academic intensity my kids willingly took on in HS, they had no real interest in Ivies. They were attracted to schools that were extremely strong in their majors and had interesting, thought-provoking essays. (Compaq10, those would be two of the schools you mentioned!) They both pooh-poohed prestige except as it related to academic rigor. </p>
<p>For one of my kids, if the school couldn’t give him the challenge he wanted, he went out and taught himself. He could no more “wait” to start college-level work in college than he could stop eating or drinking. It’s his lifeblood.</p>
<p>I guess the UC chancellor must have been assuming this would happen. Like I said, S is currently attending UC and has not/is not having trouble getting his classes and the state has been in this crisis for several years now. Maybe there are some specific majors that are having more trouble than others.</p>
<p>5 years for the average BS–I guess that leaves a lot of free time for Junior to get a job!</p>
<p>Sorry pacheight, you said CA kids were choosing privates over UC’s because they were cheaper. I was just pointing out that a UC is cheaper than Stanford (a private). Maybe you meant to say that CA students are choosing “comparable” privates over UC’s due to price. </p>
<p>Forget Stanford, would USD be comparable? UC fees are $11,285 and USD fees are $18,475. This is of course just the fees (no housing/meal plan/etc).</p>
<p>Not a “pretty big leap,” surely! The kids that our local high school sends to UCLA are among the top ten KIDS in high school. </p>
<p>Maybe it is just some departments that are impacted at the UCs. One student I know wasn’t able to continue her organic chemistry series straight through. Got shut out of part two of the series.</p>
<p>Also, I was watching the podcasts of organic chemistry lectures given at UC Berkeley (keeps me out of trouble). The professor mentioned that none of the students taking his class would be able to take the organic chem lab next semester. The classes would be filled with seniors who have priority. This was in 2005. I wonder if things have gotten worse?</p>
<p>Actually the basic fee (tuition) at a UC is $10,302 undergrad (they are all the same). Add other costs and housing, and the total is anywhere from $20-26,000. And any student whose family income is less than $70,000 pay no fees. My daughter’s total at her UC this year will be around $20,000 since her housing is cheap (sorority house). Still less than half of Stanford or USC for a full-paying parent like myself. And she hasn’t had any trouble getting her classes. Considering how much AP credit she got, she could probably graduate in 3 years if she wanted.</p>
<p>What I meant was that all UCs, just like all CSUs and all California community colleges, have a standard basic statewide fee (per quarter, semester, or unit depending on the system). So whoever posted that UC Davis’s fees are $18000 is incorrect. Yes, each UC adds a thousand or so for campus-based fees, but these do not vary widely. And these fees are controlled by the Chancellor’s Office of the respective system. So the difference between the UCs for an undergrad degree would be mostly housing.
And all are a bargain compared to privates for any full-paying parent. If your kid is lucky enough to get a scholarship or needs-based aid, that’s a different story.</p>
<p>the UC problems are widely known as are the state of California deficit problems. the Chancellor did say on KGO radio, during the UC Davis “fee increase” (52 arrested 2009) riot, that BS degrees will take 5 years…adding that 5 years for a UC education coupled with the new increased tuition fees make the price of a UC education similar to privates, including USD:)</p>
<p>"What looms is the transformation of a world-class university into either a factory for BA students or an online correspondence school. All at double the current tuition.</p>
<p>The reality that the leadership of the UC seems determined to conceal from the public is that when resources are so drastically cut, it is simply impossible to “maintain access, quality and affordability.” Less cannot masquerade as more, or as functionally the same. Less will be less."</p>
<p>True. I saw that article when it came out. Make note of the date. The UC’s did get some money restored to their budget this year. Certainly, there are challenges still to be faced, but it’s not all doom and gloom, and I think it’s important to acknowledge that. The UC’s have struggled this year with the state of the economy in California. However, they are still excellent universities and a good value.</p>
<p>“Not a “pretty big leap,” surely!” really??? ask any kid at Cal if they had the choice between Stanford or Cal, Harvard or Cal, Yale or Cal, where they’d rather go??? come on, you know the answer. </p>
<p>Cal is the DMV compared to these private schools. And UCLA, please, 26,000 undergrads compared to 6 thousand at these privates, no comparison. or facilities, or faculty, not even in the the same arena. (and please most of Cal’s Nobels are dead)</p>
<p>Anyway, this discussion of UC fees is off the original topic, whether advantaged kids just get more and more advantaged because of all the advantages they have that can get them into private universities, where they will become even more advantaged.
I am guessing that the price differential will stay more or less the same, as the privates go up proportionally to the publics, so what do you get for your extra $30,000 a year? Do you get a better education for $55000 than for $25000? I would hope you get something for that $30,000, because either way, in the end you have a bachelor’s degree, which in most cases in not worth a price tag of $220,000.</p>