<p>My D is finalizing her list of colleges for applications this fall. Penn is top on her list. I have heard things in the past that Penn is a competitive/cut throat environment and difficult for friendships because of this...everyone looking over their shoulder to see who is creeping up on their class ranking. True or myth?? Can someone tell me more (or less) about this potential red flag? Can a CA girl make friends easily?</p>
<p>There will be some amount of competition at every top school just because of the self selection that occurs at the admissions level. This is just something you need to learn to live with to a certain extent if you go to an Ivy League school or another top university. Liberal arts colleges in general may have environments which are a bit less competitive, but this may not be true.
Despite this, I don’t think most people attending these schools are cutthroat, it’s just that they put a lot of pressure on themselves to succeed and others feed upon this. It becomes a self perpetuating cycle rather than something started by competition between students. In general, especially in my department, there is hardly any competition between students, we work together and are genuinely happy for our friends when they succeed. If someone asks me a homework question, I will try my hardest to help them because I know they would do the same. I think most of Penn is like this except for small groups of people mainly in Wharton or who are pre-med. However, in general, students look down on cutthroat behavior and these groups often alienate themselves from other students.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. She would be applying as an undergraduate to Wharton.</p>
<p>As an undergraduate in Wharton myself, I can promise you that it’s competitive, but NOT cutthroat. View it this way: All of the core Wharton courses (Marketing 101, Management 101, Finance 100, Statistics 101 & 102, etc.) are curved to approx. 30% A range, 40% B range, and 30% C (or lower) range. Some professors may vary from this distribution, but for the most part, that’s the distribution. With that in mind, when you walk into, say, STAT 101, you know that not everyone’s getting an A at the end of the day. It’s impossible. So, a competitive environment exists. </p>
<p>However, being competitive doesn’t mean I won’t help my friends study or explain concepts to them. Within my friend group (all of whom are in Wharton or a dual-degree program like me), we tend to help each other out, explain concepts, work on HW together, etc. That doesn’t mean we aren’t competitive people; it just means we still value the balance between friendship/life and getting good grades.</p>
<p>Is your D in a competitive HS now? Private or public?</p>
<p>There is a monumental difference between competing WITH your peers and competing AGAINST them. Think of it more like golf than, say, basketball. When you play a game of basketball with friends, there is a direct correlation between the way you play and the way your friends play - if you do well, the other team will do poorly, and vice versa. When you play a round of golf, you do not have a direct impact on your friends - if you do well, they can still do better. The end result is that a round of golf has more of a friendly atmosphere, with people recognizing skill levels, helping each other improve, and generally trying to have a good time.</p>
<p>At Penn, there are curves in classes, but that doesn’t mean that you want your peers to do poorly. It means that you want to do well. The result is that there is a TON of collaboration (some of it is forced in the form of class teams, but much of it is just a product of many high performing students striving for perfection).</p>
<p>I mention this all of the time, but even when I was applying for jobs, a situation in which my success COULD spell someone else’s failure, there was no sense of “me first” that I got. Instead, everyone helped each other out with resume review, cover letter review, interview prep, etc. There was no sabotage of others’ applications or anything else that would be considered a negative environment.</p>
<p>Only cutthroat competition I’ve seen is when people play Risk…</p>
<p>Competition is the name of the game all our lives. It’s very hard to succeed in life without there being some level of competition.</p>
<p>It should be easy to make friends. I don’t know a competitive sport where athletes rely on nobody but themselves and hate all their competitors.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry about a healthy competition among peers. An inability to make friends is probably due to some flaws that or weaknesses that are much more personal.</p>
<p>Like others have said, it’s mostly a myth. Competition will never preclude people from friendships. I’d say the extent to which competition exists is that if you have, for example, a good resource (e.g. good notes), you’ll be sure that it only stays among your friends because you’re at a disadvantage if everyone else has it, given the curve. Beyond that, it doesn’t affect much and the social scene is normal.</p>
<p>You’ll get competition no matter where you go, at this level.</p>
<p>I know that sometimes kids rip out pages in textbooks at the library so no one else can do the assignment.</p>
<p>I don’t know anyone who still uses a library for textbooks…</p>
<p>^or just library books in general</p>
<p>I can tell you that my daughter had an amazing first year at Wharton. She both helped, and got help from her friends, and I can truly say, she felt very comfortable in most situations. She did not feel it was cut-throat, and she made many great friends from both in Wharton and in the other majors as well.</p>
<p>Dual-degree junior here.
Wharton is not cut-throat but it’s definitely not collaborative either. The atmosphere is pretty competitive but after the first month or so you get used to it.
The College has a less competitive environment… but you rarely actually have to work with other students in your classes in the College.</p>
<p>I’ve never experienced a cutthroat atmosphere at Penn. The classes are definitely extremely difficult, but no one I know is out to see someone else’s demise. I’m sure those people exist, but I wouldn’t gravitate towards them anyway.</p>