From various comments in this thread and elsewhere, it seems as though the vast majority of positions are being held by a few. For instance, from post 187:
And for a bit more levity, your words reminded me of this Harry Potter quote.
That seems analogous to “it is possible to self educate all you need to know about [subject], but most people would learn it more easily and effectively by going to college”. Change “[subject]” to “prepare for job interviews for certain types of elite jobs” and “going to college” to “joining those elite-job-prep clubs”.
From what I’ve heard, the business clubs are competitive but you can reapply each semester should you not gain acceptance. My S was accepted as a freshmen when none of his friends were. He was helpful in them getting accepted the following year. Some of the things that were important in the recruiting process was resume (needed to write a strong one), networking abilities, presentation skills, elevator pitch (“speed dating” all the brothers), overall acumen interests. I think they had an approx. 25% acceptance rate. This was for a business fraternity. Other business oriented clubs were pretty open from what I understood.
Here is the bigger deal – in order to get a proper IB internship, I hear you need to start networking at the banks at least from sophomore fall if not earlier – cold calling etc. By the time you interview with a team at a bank, you should know (and have met) many members of that team. This is a much harder skill than just getting into the investment club on campus, and can almost not be taught.
From the bank’s point of view, if you can’t do this, how can you network, cold call, and land new business, 5 to 10 years from now?
Yes networking is important for IB, but also just about every other industry/job type out there.
Many of the banks run career day type events during soph year for females and URMs interested in IB. Some also include non-URM males. These events may be selective, and some include the spiff to ultimately interview for a post-junior year internship.
As I said above, my D’s career center did not help her, even though there are many alumni in IB (and other banking jobs). So she started networking with seniors who had job offers, and alum via LinkedIn and/or alum email. Seniors (for free, and not thru a club) helped her learn what she needed to do, as well as helped her interview prep. She also used the various online sources for IB research.
By the end of soph year she had completed 90 or so networking conversations, obviously some longer than others. It’s a painstaking process. She got a post-soph summer asset management internship this way, as well as had a post-junior IB summer internship offered and accepted in April of soph year.
ETA: Neela is absolutely correct about STEM majors being very attractive for banking jobs. My D is a STEM major and was told again and again that is preferable to finance/business majors.
Colgate’s investment club is competitive. They are given real money to invest, so maybe that’s why. Seems students need to have some sort of finance industry experience to get in.
Our son at Bowdoin hasn’t done any clubs. He’s a TA for the entry level Intro to Astronomy, runs on the XC track teams and volunteers to teach math to grade school kids. He’s had zero problem finding awesome internships. Didn’t seem to need a membership in some competitive club. He’s a math and physics double major and, in all three of his internships, was competing with undergrad engineers for the job. My point is that maybe clubs are more important at big schools where candidates need to stand out amongst their peers and also to maybe network. Our son networked on his own via Linked In and it was a lot of work but it’s good to know how to do it and that time has paid off.
All STEM majors, or just certain ones? I haven’t heard of S (other than physics) or T (engineering technology) majors being heavily recruited for elite banking jobs. Most of the reputation seems to be in favor of math or statistics heavy majors, while business majors are mainly looked at if either the school or the business major is highly selective.
I have also seen one Chemistry and one Bio kid recently – both have significant research experience at the cutting edge of the field. They both bring the ability to read and understand research, and therefore understand the domain where M&A candidates and acquirers can be evaluated for fit etc, eventually as they grow in the industry. They also have significant people and networking skills demonstrated elsewhere – i.e., not through cultivating an IB team at a bank, but in their own spheres of interest.
My son saw interest from a bank because someone at the bank thought he had domain knowledge in tech (this is in response to your thought on the Engg/Technology major). When I say domain knowledge, what I mean is understand industry dynamics, and have a view on which companies fit with which other companies, should they merge etc.
In summary I think banks are also interested in domain knowledge apart from business / finance majors. Perhaps they have always been interested.
None of the above three were in an investment club or a consulting club.
Computer science is attractive, too
My D is a neuroscience major, econ minor.
Note that engineering technology is not the same as engineering in terms of college majors (engineering technology has less technical theoretical depth; see Engineering vs. Engineering Technology | RIT ).
ok. I don’t know about engg tech then. I guess it depends on the reputation of the university and the perception of the major. The bank should not feel that the major cannot demonstrate your intellectual depth. In other words they should think that they are hiring smart kids, whatever the major be. And your major should allow them to feel that.
My S is in charge of recruitment for his competitive business fraternity (coed) at his T20 university, which is known for having a non-competitive atmosphere and very happy students. This university has two business frats, and I think his formed to give more opportunities for students to participate (also seems a bit more social). While the club is open to all majors, it is disappointing that close to 250 students applied and only 20 are given bids. My S tried to work with the other leaders to increase the numbers, but it didn’t happen. Even if my son hadn’t been selected a couple of years ago, I still think the process of applying and interviewing for the fraternity would have been helpful to him. I can definitely understand some parents’ concerns about the competitive nature of some college clubs, theater/music groups etc… However, it does seem like there are usually many other non-competitive things on most campuses to get involved with if one keeps looking.
My S likes his business fraternity for social reasons and has made some very close friends there. He especially likes the diversity of the group. I also think he benefitted from what he learned from peers both inside and out of the frat. We don’t have the income or connections of many of his friends’ families, so hearing about the interview processes and timelines from others helped him quite a bit. He practiced consulting cases with a number of peers and spent a lot of time doing his own research, and now tries to pay it forward. Would he have gotten an MBB offer without being in the “competitive club”? I think he would have had a good chance. However, I think there was a significant benefit from interacting with and learning from peers at his school. So, even if one’s kid doesn’t make it into one of the career-related clubs, there are still many social opportunities available, and they can still try to connect with other students that are pursuing similar careers. Pushing outside their comfort zones to ask for help and make those connections will likely be a good experience.
@neela1, @Mwfan1921, @roycroftmom - exciting related news to STEM and IB recruiting.
Someone close to me, who attends a very challenging math-based program outside the US (global rep) has been called for a summer associate interview. So this is a recruiting thing I haven’t heard of yet - bank sends out math heavy test to everyone. Kids reply with answers and top kids get interviews.
Kid in question has never touched foot in any kind of club. Does only stem stuff.
Congrats to him/her. Not surprised; banks love math skills.
This is fascinating. Congratulations to them.
Can you tell me more about this? I ask because it’s not apparent to me why an IB role requires math exceptional skills (my D is in IB at a major bank). There are certainly roles in banks that require very strong math skills, but IB traditionally hasn’t been one of them.
Might be more of a quant role
Can dm you.
Yes, what she describes certainly does sound toxic. However, I would suggest that perhaps she may have had an unusual experience that has led her to be bitter and it’s likely her experience is not necessarily representative of the student experience on that campus!! I think she’s pretty FAR off base from the dozens of students I’ve spoken with. I suggest no one take any single individual’s point-of-view as gospel…
